Practically every day we read complaints about scammers “who should be but haven’t been barred by Alibaba”. Apparently people believe that it is easy for Alibaba to find out who REALLY is a scammer (not just some poor guy badmouthed by a competitor) and to keep these people from advertising on their site.

Well, if that were so easy, please tell me on what legal grounds Alibaba could keep somebody from advertising. The thing is that if they do that just because you, I or anybody else says that “XYZ” company is a scammer, they get themselves in legal trouble. If you disagree with this statement, please PROVE me wrong (don't just argue).

To everybody who wants to complain about scam I want to say, “Please inform yourselves before you talk”. Of course there are scammers and of course WE (yes, “we”, not “they”) should do something about them. Also Alibaba has to do (and is doing) something, but that doesn’t mean that only because you are frustrated things are as easy as you seem to believe.

So I would say, first inform yourself, then think, and after that talk… if there is still something to be said. Out of all scams, at least 99% happen because the victim was too greedy, too careless or otherwise opened the door to being scammed.

It's not that scammers are so clever and manage to trick you out. In fact, they are pretty dumb and primitive. That's why they can't make a living with a decent job, so they become scammers. And nobody, including Alibaba, can do anything about your very own mistakes. - Tough but true!

I think it is better to make probably one time a fool of himself, mistakes are there to make it, as to keep quiet against all this scams !


99% of all complaints are made from people who get cheated for their own money and their reports are indispensably on Boards like the Safe Trading Forums !

Of course a report direct to Alibaba included with the proves should also be made, but

as we see in the past, with very less success. For a old Trustpass Member they wanted 3 complaints to act and for Gold Suppliers they wanted 5 !! Time enough to change the names and appear with a new one, but the old registration !


I may remind to Bide and Pide Trade, a topic from me in October 2007, read here :

http://resources.alibaba.com/topic/215451/Be_aware_Recognized_Scammer_change_names_.htm


At last, for me it doesn't matter if a greedy, careless or uneducated customer from Internet scammers get cheated or a big company from organized criminals, CHEAT is CHEAT !


Wilhelm

The bottom line of my post was really "think before you talk (or act)". That's always a good advice. And having been cheated is never an excuse for even more poor judgement, like the way some people report the scam, making unreasonable demands, etc.

That is why I have always say the Germans are the clever people.


Germex is right as a technical point of view, and Wilhelm is right as a commercial point of view. As a business, a thief is a thief, and they may change the name or dilute the impression, but it is still an unlawful act. In the technical point of view, there is zero concern on the transgression of the rules, there is no emotion, only the facts, or a judgement based on the current situation and environment.


First paragraph singles out the ill-motives for reporting a scam case. Germex cited the complaints by competitors to get rid of their "enemies" by legitimizing their malicious complaints, which are groundless and defamatory. These cases have been seen in this forum, and the plaintiff is a competitor who brings false claims against the complainant. This case puts Alibaba in a difficult position, as they have to be both the executor and the judge, finding out the evidences, weighing the gravity of the indictment if any, and carry out the punishment of the wrongful party. Alibaba has to exercise extreme caution and discernment with credible legality and compliant to the International Business Law. This only has to be done by a certified attorney.


To the layman, or the casual buyer, all these seem to intimidate their will to make a complaint about any defaults concerning the suppliers in Alibaba, especially the Gold Suppliers (no more Trust Pass), and they got away with the fraud without any justice imposed. This is Wilhelm's concern, and he is a good fighter of this cause throughout the history of his track records of his postings. Sometimes however, he went overboard, and attacked groups of companies from a certain location without any evidence or proofs, which exposed him to possible law-suite.


Wilhelm spends many hours in the Alibaba forums, helping many from the pitfalls by aluring cheap goods with great brands from the suppliers of counterfeit or non-delivered merchandise. On the flip side of the coin, there are many accounts that are "ghosts" or phantoms, without any real identity, and without even a business, set up by individuals out to take money from undiscerning buyers who send them by Western Union or Telegraphic Transfer on the terms of advance payment, or pre-payment or deposits, and never got the things they paid for. This group is prevalent among the FREE MEMBERS registered in Alibaba. Free members are unaudited, unconfirmed and untraced, Alibaba is not responsible for them, so buyers have to be aware of the very high risk of being scammed.


Spider Web 

To komijul !


"which exposed him to possible law-suite."

What until now never happened,although I offered this many times, instead of demanded deleting of postings with or without apology !
My nose LEFT me rare in this regard !

To Germex !

Thinking before acting as you suggest will be done by the dumb and primitive scammers who think a lot about how they can outwit Alibaba and their spongelike rules and how they can show a performance that will invite potential customers into their trap.
A sample, as we all know it is impossible to buy any kind of Brands from China all this is cheat, here is a posting from me, answered with a legalisation of cheat advertisement by an Alibaba employee, of course only until the first customers have lost their money and start complaining  :


http://resources.alibaba.com/topic/547653/How_is_it_possible_No_controls_of_Ads_but_writing_"account"_in_a_reply_is_forbidden_.htm 


The main part of "customers" we see here in the Boards and who trust in the first instance Alibaba's promises of Authenticated and Verificated Suppliersare, as thousand times determined, privates and self employed who search a new phone,computer or camera for cheap, newbies trying to establish working from home using the internet or small business owners who search for a extra income, all attracted through the offered prices by the dumb and primitive scammers who in China and Indonesia are well organized by a strong Administration who manage the performance and later protect the basic. The same structures you will also find in West Africa, different from Western Countries where Scammer mainly work alone !


Or have you seen on the customers side complainings of bigger companies with 10 and more employees ?
They are to smart and skilled to fall this traps !

Wilhelm

Komijul, thanks for explaining more into detail why Alibaba can't always act the way a person who was scammed would like. That goes along with what I said about thinking twice and being reasonable, something I miss in too many posts - including Wilhelm's.


Apparently he didn't understand what I'm talking about. His concerns have nothing to do with my topic. He is of course free to express them, but he should express them somewhere else. Confusing topics with "me too" contributions isn't helpful for anybody.

Addendum: Just saw Wilhelm's rebuke to Komijuil about being off-topic. Interesting, to say the least! So Wilhelm is aware that off-topic contributions are not the way to go, but he grants himself the right to do that. Though I guess Wilhelm wouldn't be Wilhelm if he acted in a congruent and equilibrated way.

Dear Uwe,



I have understand your starting post, you can believe me and my reply was not off - topic !



My then following answers always referred to the possibilities of Alibaba, answered in the negative by you, of proceeding and of reacting against Cheat.



Observe the Safe Trading Boards, understand the reality and you will not try more to get the irons out of  fire for others , not for Alibaba or as in the past for our girl friend Miss Mahoney from Brazil !



Alibaba is a commercial Company, any action against their best buying customers can cost them 5000 US$ !


What you think who will be here protected, as long as possible ?


Wilhelm

What is wrong with you, Wilhelm? Don't you still get it that my post was EXCLUSIVELY about the WAY complaints are reported (being reasonable, informed, proving things instead of just baselessly accusing, etc.) - not about what Alibaba should do or how? Those are of course legitimate subjects, but not the subject of this post. Can't you see the difference? Open your eyes and see what is really written in a post! Though your comment about that deal that involved Miss Mahoney tells me clearly that opening your eyes is the last thing you would do. Evidently you'll never learn!

alibaba is not going to crack down on gold suppliers unless they stink too much because this is how they make money and expand the website and their own business they expand it not by complaints and if someone got ripped off by a thousand or two . profits and business before human lives or the interest of a good person this is the ideology of capitalism . so you are on your own most of the time don't take a chance i m a free member and i haven't taken any chance yet. because i pick up on the conversation very easily and i grill meticulously the suppliers , you have to show them that u are naive but at thesame time like an FBI agent make the scammers sink in a cup of water . papers registration etc they can manage to float around it but you and you alone can determine the supplier not everything shines is gold . all the people i talked too they are scammers the website is brimmed with it if you really want good products or to say the least till nowi haven't found a good one yet since i become one hopefully when aliba realizes that most of his customers are getting ripped off they will weed ou all the scammers immidiately without the 3 strike law bs red tape , if you steal a pen or a bank you are the same just matter of right opportunity and this is for germex he talking about greed . capitalism all of it based on greed and reaping big profits customers suppliers workers etc all included and be inidifferent to the good righteous person. how about alibab should forcefully ask gold suppliers of their papers registration ,export registration names of their bosses bank their names and investigate them, not only take down names and ok pay 3000 you become a gold member you know how easy to be a gold member or a verifed member like drinking a cup of water and of course these opportunistis they will zigzag around it and rip off left and right .

Some are born to complain...others are learning the tricks on how to complain...there are many more who want to blame the complaint.

Thanks, Sunil, for weighing in like the sage Asian you are! Though you made me reflect and I was wondering, weren't we all born whining and complaining, expecting others to solve our problems (changing our dirty diapers, etc.)? Fortunately some of us learned one day how to live on our own, while others hopefully will follow soon.