After visiting China I do not dare to do a T/T in advance, do you?
Post 2 of 106
How may I find a company that will safeguard my interest when I am purchasing in China as you describe : a specialised procurement company ?
08 Nov 2007 18:00
Post 3 of 106
Replying to [voyager]:
There is no 100% safe guard. The best is asked a QC logistic company to visit on your behalf if you cannot visit on your own. There are a few forum active members who do this kind of service, I think you can trust them.
You also can ask a multi national QC company to do so, MOODY International is one of them ( www.moodyint.com )
Another member “business in China” also provides such service, according on one of the topic that he has posted, out of 5 gold suppliers that he has visited 3 of it is a fake manufacturers.
I think “hellojasmine” also provide such service, read the topics they have posted and contacting them via TM will be a great help to you.
Good Luck
There is no 100% safe guard. The best is asked a QC logistic company to visit on your behalf if you cannot visit on your own. There are a few forum active members who do this kind of service, I think you can trust them.
You also can ask a multi national QC company to do so, MOODY International is one of them ( www.moodyint.com )
Another member “business in China” also provides such service, according on one of the topic that he has posted, out of 5 gold suppliers that he has visited 3 of it is a fake manufacturers.
I think “hellojasmine” also provide such service, read the topics they have posted and contacting them via TM will be a great help to you.
Good Luck
11 Nov 2007 17:17
Post 4 of 106
Replying to [David Frencken]:So sorry to here about your trip.I put off going to China because of a friend whi visits home regularly warned me about this and more. I have still managed to find a couple of good companies to do business with in China though.So just one question.
What do con artista and street people have to do with business?
What do con artista and street people have to do with business?
25 Nov 2007 08:00
Post 5 of 106
Replying to [CanuckJoe]:
Joe, of course the street con artist do not have impact on my business, this taught me to be caution and take necessary precaution that's all.
Joe, of course the street con artist do not have impact on my business, this taught me to be caution and take necessary precaution that's all.
26 Nov 2007 00:50
Post 6 of 106
Replying to [David Frencken]:
Dear David,
after reading your stories, I felt that my feelings towards PRC is not unfound.
When I was studying in a private institution. I got to know a PRC and we got along quite well. He came from a quite well-to-do background as only the rich can afford to pay the fees in full as required by our school policy. Locals get a subsidised rate which is still affordable to people like me.
Everythig went well till one fine day, he ask to borrow $300 SG dollars. I asked him what he needed it for , he claims that we are "good brothers" and I dont need to ask. Logically I denied him the sum of money and soon afterwards he kept pestering me for money. I ended the friendship with him there and then.
Fast forward, I "met" a "real manufacturer" on Dhgate.com. I order a sample from them and paid everything in full as stated on their listing.
The following hour, i recieved an email asking me to fork out additional money for the shipping. I was like thinking "wtf?" but of coz I did not swear at them , but just told them firmly that DHgate.com does not allow transaction to be taken outside of their site and I will not pay for what's not stated on their listings. IMHO, that's really call "daylight robbery"
So far, the manufacturer complied and the status shown on my account is "item being processed" Let's just hope everything goes well. I must really thank my lucky star if I were to deal with them directly, I would be in deep trouble. As they will be holding me by the throat.
Another thing I notice is alot of the PRC businesses accept T/T only. Recently I contacted a manufacturer whom listed on globalsources.com and is a verified business by globalsources.com.
Of coz I will not trust any of those kind of ratings hype. As they are based in shenzhen, I asked them if they have a paypal account, intially the representative told me she /he will check with their boss.
Later on they told me they don't accept which is fine by me. So i suggusted that they open a bank acc with an international bank in Hongkong which accepts Paypal. And mind you, HK is not very far from Shenzhen.
You guess what was their answer? the representative told that " It's was too much of a trouble and takes alot of time."
Hence, I draw a conclusion about PRC companies in general.
"Impatient"
"No proper business attitude"
"Self-serving"
"Lack maturity in business ethics"
"No foresight"
Most PRC manufactured products currently in my opinion are considered "1st world" but their business traits leaves much to be desired.
In short, its like giving nuclear energy to Neandertal man but they do not know how to utilise the potential.
Probably what I had just said has been represented in some form or another many times in this forum. But I just need to get it out of my system.
I really ashamed to being called "Chinese". Next time when someone asked me what's my race, I'II just say "Singaporean".
My similarity with PRC is only skin-deep and ends there and then.
Dear David,
after reading your stories, I felt that my feelings towards PRC is not unfound.
When I was studying in a private institution. I got to know a PRC and we got along quite well. He came from a quite well-to-do background as only the rich can afford to pay the fees in full as required by our school policy. Locals get a subsidised rate which is still affordable to people like me.
Everythig went well till one fine day, he ask to borrow $300 SG dollars. I asked him what he needed it for , he claims that we are "good brothers" and I dont need to ask. Logically I denied him the sum of money and soon afterwards he kept pestering me for money. I ended the friendship with him there and then.
Fast forward, I "met" a "real manufacturer" on Dhgate.com. I order a sample from them and paid everything in full as stated on their listing.
The following hour, i recieved an email asking me to fork out additional money for the shipping. I was like thinking "wtf?" but of coz I did not swear at them , but just told them firmly that DHgate.com does not allow transaction to be taken outside of their site and I will not pay for what's not stated on their listings. IMHO, that's really call "daylight robbery"
So far, the manufacturer complied and the status shown on my account is "item being processed" Let's just hope everything goes well. I must really thank my lucky star if I were to deal with them directly, I would be in deep trouble. As they will be holding me by the throat.
Another thing I notice is alot of the PRC businesses accept T/T only. Recently I contacted a manufacturer whom listed on globalsources.com and is a verified business by globalsources.com.
Of coz I will not trust any of those kind of ratings hype. As they are based in shenzhen, I asked them if they have a paypal account, intially the representative told me she /he will check with their boss.
Later on they told me they don't accept which is fine by me. So i suggusted that they open a bank acc with an international bank in Hongkong which accepts Paypal. And mind you, HK is not very far from Shenzhen.
You guess what was their answer? the representative told that " It's was too much of a trouble and takes alot of time."
Hence, I draw a conclusion about PRC companies in general.
"Impatient"
"No proper business attitude"
"Self-serving"
"Lack maturity in business ethics"
"No foresight"
Most PRC manufactured products currently in my opinion are considered "1st world" but their business traits leaves much to be desired.
In short, its like giving nuclear energy to Neandertal man but they do not know how to utilise the potential.
Probably what I had just said has been represented in some form or another many times in this forum. But I just need to get it out of my system.
I really ashamed to being called "Chinese". Next time when someone asked me what's my race, I'II just say "Singaporean".
My similarity with PRC is only skin-deep and ends there and then.
28 Nov 2007 17:12
Post 7 of 106
Replying to [kksin]:
The bad and the ugly, always outnumber the good. With PRC's huge population, U do the maths.
U know what I meant.
The bad and the ugly, always outnumber the good. With PRC's huge population, U do the maths.
U know what I meant.
28 Nov 2007 17:14
Post 8 of 106
Replying to [Macrick]:
I think the manufacturers in China aready adapt the culture of asking T/T in advance, the most they can compromise is L/C at sight, why? I have been arguing on this issue and try to find out throught various of question and topics here in the forum. Findings are...
1) In the past approx 10-15 years ago when China open its door, everybody is rushing for the gold rush, as happened in many other country before China, many of the manufacturers produce very low quality products, try to cut corners, cheat whenever it is possible. I am sure you have know about this and have heard from friends or from market gossip if you are in business then. The buyers are not stupid too, some of the buyers try to cheat, take cunning precaution as a counter to the situation, at the end some China manufacturers suffer lost too. So there are news running in China too, hence they adapt this culture of asking T/T in advance.
2) Today after one to one and a half decade, the culture is thick, lack of confidence on their quality and suffer lost when they can't meet certain quality has made them asking for T/T in advance or L/C at sight.
3) We have been importing from all over the world for so long, how often you come across a company from China agree on credit terms?
10 years in purchasing I came across only one, their quality is 100% always and they gave 30 days credit.
4) The rest, still have quality problem here and there, can never dare to give any credit even though they knew our company is a multi national manufacturer with billion of turn over, why? Lack of confidence in their own quality is the answer.
5) If you are a manufacurer and your customer reject your goods due to quality, will you honour the reject and replace everything including the freight cost? Just search in the forum you'll find so many manufacturer in China who don't honour.
6) They will tell you, USD ten to twenty thousand is a small money, complex to do L/C, in actual fact the income per capita is just USD7600.
7) A survey contacted by some of the members here also tell us that, the salary of foreign trade sales person in China is just USD150-USD350 excluding comission, they do not have proper international sales or product training, and most of them said they don't have much business, so these sales person will try to promise anything to get the sales, at the end it is screw up stand a very high chance.
Telling all of these is not my intention to talk bad or marginalize the Chinese, just to let both buyer and Chinese manufacturers know what I have went through and think, so that the business culture gap can be made narrow, and both parties can take extra precaution to avoid the avoidable
I think the manufacturers in China aready adapt the culture of asking T/T in advance, the most they can compromise is L/C at sight, why? I have been arguing on this issue and try to find out throught various of question and topics here in the forum. Findings are...
1) In the past approx 10-15 years ago when China open its door, everybody is rushing for the gold rush, as happened in many other country before China, many of the manufacturers produce very low quality products, try to cut corners, cheat whenever it is possible. I am sure you have know about this and have heard from friends or from market gossip if you are in business then. The buyers are not stupid too, some of the buyers try to cheat, take cunning precaution as a counter to the situation, at the end some China manufacturers suffer lost too. So there are news running in China too, hence they adapt this culture of asking T/T in advance.
2) Today after one to one and a half decade, the culture is thick, lack of confidence on their quality and suffer lost when they can't meet certain quality has made them asking for T/T in advance or L/C at sight.
3) We have been importing from all over the world for so long, how often you come across a company from China agree on credit terms?
10 years in purchasing I came across only one, their quality is 100% always and they gave 30 days credit.
4) The rest, still have quality problem here and there, can never dare to give any credit even though they knew our company is a multi national manufacturer with billion of turn over, why? Lack of confidence in their own quality is the answer.
5) If you are a manufacurer and your customer reject your goods due to quality, will you honour the reject and replace everything including the freight cost? Just search in the forum you'll find so many manufacturer in China who don't honour.
6) They will tell you, USD ten to twenty thousand is a small money, complex to do L/C, in actual fact the income per capita is just USD7600.
7) A survey contacted by some of the members here also tell us that, the salary of foreign trade sales person in China is just USD150-USD350 excluding comission, they do not have proper international sales or product training, and most of them said they don't have much business, so these sales person will try to promise anything to get the sales, at the end it is screw up stand a very high chance.
Telling all of these is not my intention to talk bad or marginalize the Chinese, just to let both buyer and Chinese manufacturers know what I have went through and think, so that the business culture gap can be made narrow, and both parties can take extra precaution to avoid the avoidable
29 Nov 2007 16:17
Post 9 of 106
Replying to [David Frencken]:
TO ALL THE PEOPLE.
Im soo agree with you David. Im the china country manager of a very big south american company.
When we start working with china 10 years ago maybe they was more companies very good and trust.
With the time we start to see that every time there are more companies that try to cheat you in all the ways. And i mean, a looooooooot. We buy in china from a pencil to lcd tvs, i quote in soooo many companies in china, my msn have more than 500 chinese, and my skype now more than 800. Chinese companies try to cheat us soooo many times, and the problem is that is sooo dificult to find a good supplier, we have to go to visit always, we work together with a big QC company of HK, and always, even in the most biggest companies, always are problems. The quality, the packing, the production. I really think that the chinese are 100% stupids. But we keep buying here because is very cheap like vietnam and also thai, so we keep buying in asia. But the time make us learn something. We never, but pls alll the people pls do this, never pay in TT, TT = FRAUD 90%, not that they will stole your money, but if any problem never return all the money or never fix the problems, there is not any insurance for that, always pay with LC because a company that accept LC is a company that have the money to produce by them self and dont need a 30% first to do it, second, you can be sure that the company have a big bank account to receive that and make the production without money. Also to be 100% save, i send always people of the company, chinese all but the company pays good so they are trust and they go to check the goods and check the packing and check the goods. Also of course, the sgs is always need it in china, the normal companies here are all very small, no more than 5 mm usd sales every year, that means 400.000 sales every month, so they are small, and that companies dont have any certificate like iso9001, 9002, en71, nothing.
So i aggre with you.
Also if you have a problem in the street or a restaurant you just talk louder and more louder and more louder, alllllll the people will look and they will leave and you will have no problem. Also in copy markets or that, always you have to rise your voice, every one see you and the man finally say "okokokok, i sale you in 10rmb the shirt". They won money anyway, but try to sale at 200rmb to any stupid walk there. If someone say 1000 and you think cost 50, you say 10, and dont stop until mmmm, 30. I promess that you will get it.
well, anyway, never let someone in the street cheat you. You can call the police always and they scare very much because if something happen to a tourist is very very bad for the chinese. You will se people that when you are walking they say "ahhhh, you kick meee, ahhhhhhh" and all the people look. He say i will call the police if you dont give me money, and you have to say "ok, call now" and they live because can not have problems with tourist
REMARK: never use TT in china, always LC and SGS.
TO ALL THE PEOPLE.
Im soo agree with you David. Im the china country manager of a very big south american company.
When we start working with china 10 years ago maybe they was more companies very good and trust.
With the time we start to see that every time there are more companies that try to cheat you in all the ways. And i mean, a looooooooot. We buy in china from a pencil to lcd tvs, i quote in soooo many companies in china, my msn have more than 500 chinese, and my skype now more than 800. Chinese companies try to cheat us soooo many times, and the problem is that is sooo dificult to find a good supplier, we have to go to visit always, we work together with a big QC company of HK, and always, even in the most biggest companies, always are problems. The quality, the packing, the production. I really think that the chinese are 100% stupids. But we keep buying here because is very cheap like vietnam and also thai, so we keep buying in asia. But the time make us learn something. We never, but pls alll the people pls do this, never pay in TT, TT = FRAUD 90%, not that they will stole your money, but if any problem never return all the money or never fix the problems, there is not any insurance for that, always pay with LC because a company that accept LC is a company that have the money to produce by them self and dont need a 30% first to do it, second, you can be sure that the company have a big bank account to receive that and make the production without money. Also to be 100% save, i send always people of the company, chinese all but the company pays good so they are trust and they go to check the goods and check the packing and check the goods. Also of course, the sgs is always need it in china, the normal companies here are all very small, no more than 5 mm usd sales every year, that means 400.000 sales every month, so they are small, and that companies dont have any certificate like iso9001, 9002, en71, nothing.
So i aggre with you.
Also if you have a problem in the street or a restaurant you just talk louder and more louder and more louder, alllllll the people will look and they will leave and you will have no problem. Also in copy markets or that, always you have to rise your voice, every one see you and the man finally say "okokokok, i sale you in 10rmb the shirt". They won money anyway, but try to sale at 200rmb to any stupid walk there. If someone say 1000 and you think cost 50, you say 10, and dont stop until mmmm, 30. I promess that you will get it.
well, anyway, never let someone in the street cheat you. You can call the police always and they scare very much because if something happen to a tourist is very very bad for the chinese. You will se people that when you are walking they say "ahhhh, you kick meee, ahhhhhhh" and all the people look. He say i will call the police if you dont give me money, and you have to say "ok, call now" and they live because can not have problems with tourist
REMARK: never use TT in china, always LC and SGS.
06 Dec 2007 09:30
Post 10 of 106
Thank you for you post and i am agree with some of your opinions. Now i am living and working in Guangzhou for four years already. I hate this city when i came here, but after three years later that i start to love HER more and more. Have you been to here before? There are so many manufactures and agents can be trusted like me.
Best wishes to all of yours ^_^
Best wishes to all of yours ^_^
15 Jan 2008 23:10
Post 11 of 106
Replying to [David Frencken]:![[em2]](http://img.alibaba.com/images/eng/style/icon/emoticons_laugh.gif)
You must look like an easy target HAHA
You must look like an easy target HAHA
21 Jan 2008 17:26