After visiting China I do not dare to do a T/T in advance, do you?
Post 2 of 106
Replying to [David Frencken]:
Hi David, thanks for your post. I'm very sorry to know what happened to you. I'm Chinese and I think I'm hornest. There are cheaters around here, and I think it's okay to say that they're all around the world. They're pathetic, just doing this for a living. Long long way to go. What you should do is pay more attention to the people you're trading with, play it safe. China is still the best place to import.![[em1]](http://img.alibaba.com/images/eng/style/icon/emoticons_smile.gif)
Hi David, thanks for your post. I'm very sorry to know what happened to you. I'm Chinese and I think I'm hornest. There are cheaters around here, and I think it's okay to say that they're all around the world. They're pathetic, just doing this for a living. Long long way to go. What you should do is pay more attention to the people you're trading with, play it safe. China is still the best place to import.
04 Jul 2007 23:30
Post 3 of 106
Replying to [David Frencken]:Very sorry to hear your stories
But
One telephone lady
One fifth generation stroller
One street artist who painter worse than your son
two prostitutes
Does these people represent whole Chinese industry? Because of these people you change your mind to do T/T?
I am sure you could find these low class people in every country. But they dont represent a countrys culture & mentality. China is such a huge country, for sure you could find a lot of strange people like this.
If Chinese factories all are cheaters, How come so many foreigners come and buy from China?
But
One telephone lady
One fifth generation stroller
One street artist who painter worse than your son
two prostitutes
Does these people represent whole Chinese industry? Because of these people you change your mind to do T/T?
I am sure you could find these low class people in every country. But they dont represent a countrys culture & mentality. China is such a huge country, for sure you could find a lot of strange people like this.
If Chinese factories all are cheaters, How come so many foreigners come and buy from China?
04 Jul 2007 23:37
Post 4 of 106
Replying to [David Frencken]: it's bad luck for you. you met so many ugly businessmen. maybe you look easily being cheated. you should have asked your Chinese friend as your guide thus you could avoide those embarrassment. when you visit China more times, you won't feel strange about this phenomenon.
Hope you won't impress badly on all Chinese. there are good group and bad group in each corner of the world. the phenomenon won't be solely owned by China.
Hope you won't impress badly on all Chinese. there are good group and bad group in each corner of the world. the phenomenon won't be solely owned by China.
05 Jul 2007 00:08
Post 5 of 106
Replying to [David Frencken]:
Dear my friend,
Iam so sorry to hear your experience!![[em11]](http://img.alibaba.com/images/eng/style/icon/emoticons_sweat.gif)
Because I am a chinese.
But this is their life, no any connection to trading.So don't worry about it! Also, I think there are a few such people every where in the world!
At least, many businessmen in china are honest. this is no doubt! Because They are want to make more maney and establish longteam business with foreigner.So.... don't worry!![[em7]](http://img.alibaba.com/images/eng/style/icon/emoticons_shy.gif)
Dear my friend,
Iam so sorry to hear your experience!
Because I am a chinese.But this is their life, no any connection to trading.So don't worry about it! Also, I think there are a few such people every where in the world!
At least, many businessmen in china are honest. this is no doubt! Because They are want to make more maney and establish longteam business with foreigner.So.... don't worry!
05 Jul 2007 00:12
Post 6 of 106
Replying to [heshelleyatgmaildotcom]:yes,I am a chinese too,I also would like to say that most of chinese companies are honest.The scam phenomenon exsiting in every countries. Indeed ,I am working a chinese factory and do business with many foriegn buyers.And I never cheat them and cooperate with them happily.And some of my customers said to me that he was 200% satisfy with my service. So I would like to say that trust is the most important thing in international trading. If small amount also pay by LC. It will bring lots of troubles in business. TT is a good payment term for small amount.But one more thing I want to claim,before you do the TT ,you should be pay attention to the seller 's trust.You can evaluate from the communication.Thanks.
05 Jul 2007 00:41
Post 7 of 106
Replying to [David Frencken]: Your experience scares me.
I understand that when one is cheated so many times in a country, he/she will surely have doubts.
Maybe you can try L/Cs first, when you really trust the supplier, you can change to T/T. There are still good suppliers in China.
I understand that when one is cheated so many times in a country, he/she will surely have doubts.
Maybe you can try L/Cs first, when you really trust the supplier, you can change to T/T. There are still good suppliers in China.
05 Jul 2007 00:54
Post 8 of 106
Replying to [Nacy]: If you are kind of people 200% trusted by clients, I wish to know you.
05 Jul 2007 01:47
Post 9 of 106
Replying to all,
Thanks for replying, first of all I'm not here to condemn or make live difficult for the Chinese, I agreed that not all Chinese are greedy and is out there to rip people, I have a supplier which I have been dealing for the past 10 years and never once delivered me a bad product and the price that he offered me was so good that at least I make a 100% profit ( I hope he don't see this ) Now in total I have 4 suppliers and I trusted all of them however we are still dealing in L/C expect my first supplier that he gave me 30 to 60 days credit.
At this point I considered myself very lucky as I have never came across anyone that has cheated me in real business dealings, however my recent first trip to China make me feel very uncomfortable as I do not know when my luck will run out and run into a scammer as I feel there are too many different kind of people and if we go by proportrion of 1 in 10,000 of the people are bad considering China has over 1.4 billion people the number of bad people are extremly high.
My recent 3 new suppliers gave a projected saving to our company to a whooping sum of more than a million dollars a year. I have calculated our risks per dealing and present it to my director versus the savings and I have to use and L/C instead of a T/T in advance as by using L/C the supplier has to deliver me something, in my case it was steel and stainless steel. If it is not up to spec I can just sell it off to a scrap yard and our losses will be lower.
So my advice is never do a T/T in advance for a supplier that is new to you as you never know what kind of person you are dealing with at the other end. Trust is something that you don't give upfront it is something that have to be gain gradually and I take years in process.
I also travel to Europe very frequently, what I noticed is that most of the time when I went in a convenience shop to buy a smoke and the cashier is a middle east people most of the time they try to cheat by giving a short change. So bad guys are every where .... so don't trust anybody you really know is the best save guard.
I have not only just write about bad incident, complaints and de-motivating subjects I have written a motivating passage too....see forum under "What do you think of China's new export tax rebate"
Rdgs, David
Thanks for replying, first of all I'm not here to condemn or make live difficult for the Chinese, I agreed that not all Chinese are greedy and is out there to rip people, I have a supplier which I have been dealing for the past 10 years and never once delivered me a bad product and the price that he offered me was so good that at least I make a 100% profit ( I hope he don't see this ) Now in total I have 4 suppliers and I trusted all of them however we are still dealing in L/C expect my first supplier that he gave me 30 to 60 days credit.
At this point I considered myself very lucky as I have never came across anyone that has cheated me in real business dealings, however my recent first trip to China make me feel very uncomfortable as I do not know when my luck will run out and run into a scammer as I feel there are too many different kind of people and if we go by proportrion of 1 in 10,000 of the people are bad considering China has over 1.4 billion people the number of bad people are extremly high.
My recent 3 new suppliers gave a projected saving to our company to a whooping sum of more than a million dollars a year. I have calculated our risks per dealing and present it to my director versus the savings and I have to use and L/C instead of a T/T in advance as by using L/C the supplier has to deliver me something, in my case it was steel and stainless steel. If it is not up to spec I can just sell it off to a scrap yard and our losses will be lower.
So my advice is never do a T/T in advance for a supplier that is new to you as you never know what kind of person you are dealing with at the other end. Trust is something that you don't give upfront it is something that have to be gain gradually and I take years in process.
I also travel to Europe very frequently, what I noticed is that most of the time when I went in a convenience shop to buy a smoke and the cashier is a middle east people most of the time they try to cheat by giving a short change. So bad guys are every where .... so don't trust anybody you really know is the best save guard.
I have not only just write about bad incident, complaints and de-motivating subjects I have written a motivating passage too....see forum under "What do you think of China's new export tax rebate"
Rdgs, David
05 Jul 2007 02:21
Post 10 of 106
Replying to [David Frencken]:. as a buyer of good from a chinese supplier what payment option would you take.
05 Jul 2007 05:07
Post 11 of 106
Replying to [actinvest] and Nacy,
I am the first person in my organization to start sourcing in China as I have some experience in it, whereby I knew a supplier 10 years ago from my previous company. Most of my colleagues do not dare to do so as their main concern are
1) What happen if the goods are under specification? Will the supplier allow a refund or a replacement? What happen next if no refund or no replacement?
2) What happen if the whole deal is a total lost whereby totally no goods are received?
Based on these two bases I set a few ground rules
a) All payments are only by L/C, as by using it concern (2) is eliminated.
b) L/C condition must be as simple as possible, however it must cover all requirements and agreed upon by seller.
c) Use a small quantity in a single model to start a dealing with the new supplier.
d) Do a maximum risk of loss calculation and compare with your savings, top management must be make known of the risk involved and are in agreeable.
e) Re-check all specification on the products receive on every lots upon receiving.
f) Split big orders into a few suppliers.
g) Have a good phase in phase out plan.
To elaborate more on item (c) the reason of doing so is to find out how sincere is the seller in doing business with us. For example, my company uses 20 sizes of steel rods and each item is 100 tonne a year. Dont let the new supplier know that your company consumed that much. Just ask for one size and the quantity is just 1 to 2 tonne per order, the payments have to be by L/C, quality requirement, special packing etc. This way a lot of sellers who is unwilling to go extra mile can be filter out and those who are sincere to develop a long term business relationship will be short listed.
For the seller not only the sales person but the whole company from the top management must understand what a buyer wants. As for my company as a very high end machine maker in medical and analytical industry we are looking for a supplier who are.
1) Sincere in developing long term business relationship and are able to deliver a continuous supply.
2) Stable in continuity of quality.
3) Able to cooperate in technical discussion
4) Able to support in urgent cases despite small quantity.
So it is very important for me to filter out those sellers who are there to make a quick money and looking for huge order in the initial stage. If you are looking for huge order in a single customer in an export market then you are wrong. Good material manager do not put all his eggs in a single baskets especially when buying in China, the continuity of his production line or business is the main concern and they have to be 110% sure that your product is reliable before putting you in their approved vendor list. I have read a news article yesterday that the Chinese government released a figure of 20% of its food products is a fall out. So for every importer from China they should have a plan B or a contingency plan ahead.
My advise to the Chinese suppliers is always put quality above everything, look further even if it is a small order that requested a lot of requirements ( most Chinese seller thinks that this is a nuisance ) be careful of the price that you quote as youll be missing millions of dollars in sales if you over look a buyer of a big organization who is out there to test you out.
I am the first person in my organization to start sourcing in China as I have some experience in it, whereby I knew a supplier 10 years ago from my previous company. Most of my colleagues do not dare to do so as their main concern are
1) What happen if the goods are under specification? Will the supplier allow a refund or a replacement? What happen next if no refund or no replacement?
2) What happen if the whole deal is a total lost whereby totally no goods are received?
Based on these two bases I set a few ground rules
a) All payments are only by L/C, as by using it concern (2) is eliminated.
b) L/C condition must be as simple as possible, however it must cover all requirements and agreed upon by seller.
c) Use a small quantity in a single model to start a dealing with the new supplier.
d) Do a maximum risk of loss calculation and compare with your savings, top management must be make known of the risk involved and are in agreeable.
e) Re-check all specification on the products receive on every lots upon receiving.
f) Split big orders into a few suppliers.
g) Have a good phase in phase out plan.
To elaborate more on item (c) the reason of doing so is to find out how sincere is the seller in doing business with us. For example, my company uses 20 sizes of steel rods and each item is 100 tonne a year. Dont let the new supplier know that your company consumed that much. Just ask for one size and the quantity is just 1 to 2 tonne per order, the payments have to be by L/C, quality requirement, special packing etc. This way a lot of sellers who is unwilling to go extra mile can be filter out and those who are sincere to develop a long term business relationship will be short listed.
For the seller not only the sales person but the whole company from the top management must understand what a buyer wants. As for my company as a very high end machine maker in medical and analytical industry we are looking for a supplier who are.
1) Sincere in developing long term business relationship and are able to deliver a continuous supply.
2) Stable in continuity of quality.
3) Able to cooperate in technical discussion
4) Able to support in urgent cases despite small quantity.
So it is very important for me to filter out those sellers who are there to make a quick money and looking for huge order in the initial stage. If you are looking for huge order in a single customer in an export market then you are wrong. Good material manager do not put all his eggs in a single baskets especially when buying in China, the continuity of his production line or business is the main concern and they have to be 110% sure that your product is reliable before putting you in their approved vendor list. I have read a news article yesterday that the Chinese government released a figure of 20% of its food products is a fall out. So for every importer from China they should have a plan B or a contingency plan ahead.
My advise to the Chinese suppliers is always put quality above everything, look further even if it is a small order that requested a lot of requirements ( most Chinese seller thinks that this is a nuisance ) be careful of the price that you quote as youll be missing millions of dollars in sales if you over look a buyer of a big organization who is out there to test you out.
05 Jul 2007 19:02