Why is it so frustrating trying to deal with chinese suppliers?

Everyone of them acts like they are going to get rich on the first order and don't seem to understand the concepts of creating a relationship that is a win-win and starting with lower quantities until trust, service level and quality have been proven.

It seem also that all of them speak some english but none speak good english and the level of english speaking ability or desire changes on a daily basis with the same person.

The common thread seems to be they want money but don't want to create a win-win relationship. 

Can anyone provide me with some perspective from the trenches that maybe I'm just not getting my mind wrapped around? 

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Quoting from [bigbadlarry111]:

Why is it so frustrating trying to deal with chinese suppliers?

Everyone of them acts like they are going to get rich on the first order and don't seem to understand the concepts of creating a relationship that is a win-win and starting with lower quantities until trust, service level and quality have been proven.

It seem also that all of them speak some english but none speak good english and the level of english speaking ability or desire changes on a daily basis with the same person.

The common thread seems to be they want money but don't want to create a win-win relationship. 

Can anyone provide me with some perspective from the trenches that maybe I'm just not getting my mind wrapped around? 

Hey Larry,

Great Topic, although you sound like a little bit frustrated...But i can tell you have got very much good discussion which are really right and true.

In a word, Chinese is Chinese, You are you... We can not change that. Most of Chinse company owners are in the way you can not understand... even they themselves do not know what they want their business become. But i am sure there must be some good suppliers looking for you honestly, no matter you are big or small..

Regarding to the English, which has nothing to do with your business. You could do business with people who do not know english with help of interpreter if you and they want work with each other for a mutual profit and future. So take your time, you will get what you want from Chinese suppliers...

Merry Christmas,

Jon 

Quoting from [Egernia]:

There are a lot of things at play here but the most important thing to remember is this. If every seller in China spoke perfect English and was professional then there would be no need for middle men and your customers would just buy direct from China themselves. So the very frustrations that we encounter are the very things that protect the industry in my opinion.

1. Professionalism - this is a cultural thing. Many Chinese people deal with problems after they become a problem whereas many foreigners try to avoid problems. It is not uncommon for a supplier to discover a problem during production that could be easily fixed but they choose not to tell the customer in the hope that the customer will just accept it. They wont tell you early as they would then need to fix it. So they will either tell you once it is too late to fix, or let you find out when you receive the production. Perhaps this could be seen as dishonesty, but then again perhaps it is just optimism on their behalf!

2. English ability - this will depend a lot upon the type of supplier that you deal with and the price you pay. Smaller, cheaper factories outside of major cities tend to offer lower wages and therefore attract recent graduates or those whose English abilities are not the best. Once those sales staff have become competant they tend to move to higher paying jobs in larger factories or larger cities and often those factories charge more for products. So the price is low in some factories for a reason.

3. Bear in mind that often factory bosses cannot speak Englsh so their only guide to the capability of an English speaking staff member may be a test score. China has a national English test ranking but even individuals with the highest ranking can sometimes be very lacking in English comprehension ability as a lot of the testing is theoretical rather than practical.

4. In line with the above most sales staff prefer to communicate via messenger or email rather than telephone as their reading and writing comprehension is much better than their speaking and listening.

 

Dear Friend,

Thanks for your brilliant explanation and proposal, and i do learn a lot from your words.

i used to think i knew Chinese supplier very well. blame small factories for their lack of professionalism and get angry with large company's serveice attitude. You explanation greatly help sweep away my puzzle in dealing with China's domestic suppliers which haunting me all the way.

I definitely agree with your point: get cheaper products from small factories and bear their lack of professionalism, prepare to pay more if you intend to stick with large company.

Can i have your MSN or E-mail address

My MSN: jamesma1980@hotmail.com

Glad to be your friend if lucky enough

Quoting from [Egernia]:

There are a lot of things at play here but the most important thing to remember is this. If every seller in China spoke perfect English and was professional then there would be no need for middle men and your customers would just buy direct from China themselves. So the very frustrations that we encounter are the very things that protect the industry in my opinion.

1. Professionalism - this is a cultural thing. Many Chinese people deal with problems after they become a problem whereas many foreigners try to avoid problems. It is not uncommon for a supplier to discover a problem during production that could be easily fixed but they choose not to tell the customer in the hope that the customer will just accept it. They wont tell you early as they would then need to fix it. So they will either tell you once it is too late to fix, or let you find out when you receive the production. Perhaps this could be seen as dishonesty, but then again perhaps it is just optimism on their behalf!

2. English ability - this will depend a lot upon the type of supplier that you deal with and the price you pay. Smaller, cheaper factories outside of major cities tend to offer lower wages and therefore attract recent graduates or those whose English abilities are not the best. Once those sales staff have become competant they tend to move to higher paying jobs in larger factories or larger cities and often those factories charge more for products. So the price is low in some factories for a reason.

3. Bear in mind that often factory bosses cannot speak Englsh so their only guide to the capability of an English speaking staff member may be a test score. China has a national English test ranking but even individuals with the highest ranking can sometimes be very lacking in English comprehension ability as a lot of the testing is theoretical rather than practical.

4. In line with the above most sales staff prefer to communicate via messenger or email rather than telephone as their reading and writing comprehension is much better than their speaking and listening.

5. Sales - most sales staff are under considerable pressure to close deals. That pressure may be financial or may be the potential loss of their job. So when they see the potential for a sale they will often jump the gun to get to the finish line and get the money into the bank acct. You are probably not going to be able to change this so the best that you can do is to explain clearly in a point form basis how you work.

6. Inline with the above most sales staff are pretty transient in factories which is why they do not really care about potential sales in the future. They are only concerned with getting the best sale that they can now. This can conflict with your plans in building long term business slowly.

So my recommendations are as follows:

a. If you want good quality communication abilities and sales professionalism then stick with larger factories in larger cities and pay the price premium for this. These factories will often have English speaking management which will be more attuned to customer service and long term relationships - but bear in mind that many of these factories have long term relationships with large customers so if your orders are too small they may reject them.

b. If you want lower prices and enthusiasm from the seller even if you are a small buyer then you are probably best to stick with small factories. They will be a lot more work for you, but the returns can be very beneficial also.

This is depend on what product you looking for, if export to USA, much product need UL/FCC license, most of the China factory will NOT to apply the license, until they got the large order

because most of the license need US$30000-US$50000, so if they don't have large order, they will NOT to apply such license, this license fee can make much product to sell in china or another country.

For the language, because English is not  the mother language from china, even Mandarin is the second language too, just like most Hong Kong people like can't speak Mandarin, off course we need to improve the language level...... 

 

I am quite agree with oceanlinkltd. 

Most of Chinese suppliers do attach improtance to long term business relationship. And most of them are willing to provide samples or trial order at the first time. But most of the buyers think that shipping fee is too expensive to get a sample and don't want to pay for the sample fee even were told that sample fee will be back to them after order.

 Sincerely hope that we can bring you our best service and satified you all.

Quoting from [bigbadlarry111]:

 

Dear,

Firstly, Merry Christmas to you and your loved ones.

I am a Chinese girl. Maybe my English is not very well. I still want to give my best service to my clients. Beacuse I have less experience in doing business. Now, I have to learn from others who is more professional. Sometimes, I am sincere want to do my best to help any client, but I can't make the decision. Maybe our factory is always busy or the order is not a large one. So the manager is not interested . Then, I have to give up to give any help.

How can I do ?

Happy everyday.

Yours Melon

Quoting from [bigbadlarry111]:

Why is it so frustrating trying to deal with chinese suppliers?

Everyone of them acts like they are going to get rich on the first order and don't seem to understand the concepts of creating a relationship that is a win-win and starting with lower quantities until trust, service level and quality have been proven.

It seem also that all of them speak some english but none speak good english and the level of english speaking ability or desire changes on a daily basis with the same person.

The common thread seems to be they want money but don't want to create a win-win relationship. 

Can anyone provide me with some perspective from the trenches that maybe I'm just not getting my mind wrapped around? 

Dear Kevin,

I am very happy to know today at last. Merry Christmas!!!

What you said is true, I know. But it could not cover or Chiness suppliers, SUCH AS THE LADY ABOVE NAMED LILY AND ME AT LEAST. Maybe the suppiers you dealt with is like that..

We want to do and insist on  doing business with clients for longterm cooperative relationship. And the relationship is very good till now. the most client is from USA, and second big market is EU...

 I beleive you can make the good supplier in the future!

Best regards!

Allan

-

Thanks for you excellent comments,learn a lot. In my opinion, why foreign friends feel confused is that they pay most of their attention on very low price,and some price are real lower than the product cost, such deal is very dangerous to clients. Hope everyone can compare and choose a medium price and supplier. Hope they can enjoy the business with our Chinese suppliers.

Quoting from [bigbadlarry111]:

Why is it so frustrating trying to deal with chinese suppliers?

Everyone of them acts like they are going to get rich on the first order and don't seem to understand the concepts of creating a relationship that is a win-win and starting with lower quantities until trust, service level and quality have been proven.

It seem also that all of them speak some english but none speak good english and the level of english speaking ability or desire changes on a daily basis with the same person.

The common thread seems to be they want money but don't want to create a win-win relationship. 

Can anyone provide me with some perspective from the trenches that maybe I'm just not getting my mind wrapped around? 

First Merry Christmas to you,sir!!!

In my opinion,the reason to this misunderstood is the culture difference and the business concept.Maybe you are right in some extent, as you know,every body has one view on the same thing,even you are living in a same country or your family member,moreover you and the chinese seller are two fifferent country people have different lifestyle!!!

Take it easy,don`t worry!communicate with them more!!!

Quoting from [looo]:

Quoting from [Egernia]:

 

....

So my recommendations are as follows:

a. If you want good quality communication abilities and sales professionalism then stick with larger factories in larger cities and pay the price premium for this. These factories will often have English speaking management which will be more attuned to customer service and long term relationships - but bear in mind that many of these factories have long term relationships with large customers so if your orders are too small they may reject them.

b. If you want lower prices and enthusiasm from the seller even if you are a small buyer then you are probably best to stick with small factories. They will be a lot more work for you, but the returns can be very beneficial also.

I quite agree with Egernis. Found you know much about the Chinese suppliers and your idea practical. Buyers always try to get best price, quality and service, even fluent communication, in fact the sellers try to meet these concerns in deed. The focus is that buyer and sellers have different concept for the best price I think. At my practice, Chinese suppliers has much lower profit than the buyers. This is the turth. So I advice as a wise buyer, they should leave reasonable profit to the sellers. Then the buyer can get even better quality and service. I just do in this way. I don't give my supplier smuch pressure on the price. If I can earn the percentage at my expectant, I will leave all the balance to my suppliers. So many of my suppliers and buyers became my good friends.

Henry wrote: In my opinion, why foreign friends feel confused is that they pay most of their attention on very low price,and some price are real lower than the product cost, such deal is very dangerous to clients. Hope everyone can compare and choose a medium price and supplier.

This is another very common area for conflict between new western importers and trade with China.

First off we need to acknowledge that China is seen as the place to go for cheap manufactured goods. Look at almost any cheap, disposable product in any foreign country and on it will inevitably have a 'Made in China' label. So the fact that foreign customers push for low prices from Chinese factories shhould come as no surprise.

No matter how low the customer price may be it means nothing until a factory accepts the price and the order that comes from that price. So if Chinese factories consider the prices to be too low then they should refuse them. By accepting them you are giving the impression that they are acceptable so you cannot then complain about those low prices later!!!

The big problem with low prices is the discrepancy between what the Chinese supplier and the foreign customer are thinking:

a. The foreign customer most likely thinks that they have pushed the price lower but kept the same quality level that they are expecting.

b. The Chinese supplier will be accepting the lower price based upon their understanding that the lower price means lower quality acceptance from the customer.

So the Chinese thinking here is that 'Yes we can do the low price by making low quality' as Chinese people automatically equate price with quality, but the foreign customer may not realize this.

The next problem that I often see here is Chinese suppliers that do refuse lower prices based upon the fact that their product quality is better than other factories. Yet when pushed for further information as to how their quality is better these factories cannot explain this.

So Chinese factories, if you want more reasonable prices for your products, and/or want customers to consider quality as well as price, then you need to become better communicators. If you do not explain these relationships clearly to your customers then you will continue to experience difficulties and disappointments.

Oh, and finally, if you accept a price for production then NEVER complain to the customer about how low the price is. You accepted it - you deal with it. Accepting a lower price to get an order and then complaining about how you are not making money from the order just serves to make you look unprofessional.