As a musician, I'm pretty enticed by the deals I'm finding from Chinese manufacurers of audio equipment out of Shanghai .  But I'm concerned about making sure who ever I buy from is treating it's workers ethically. 


Most importantly, How do I check if a manufacturer treats it's workers humanely?


I've heard a lot of opinions on what is "right" in this situation.  anyone with first hand experience care to lend their opinion?

What is the ethical standard would you suggest I set as a buyer?

That's a pretty ominous silence.  No one has any suggestions?

Personally I find the claims of worker abuse in factories is overhyped in the western media. Yes there are cases but the cases of legitimate employment far exceed those of illegitimate employment.

You can employ the services of inspection companies to verify for you that a seller is abiding by local laws regarding employment issues but that will come at a cost to you.

This is the most absurd post i have ever read on this forum.

First "ethical" is highly relative and subjective word. The standard to what's ethical and what's not varies from country to country , person to person.

If a manufacturer from US offer dog meat to its workers , ok ,maybe it's not ethical.


If a manufacturer from Muslim world offer pork to its workers, ok , it's illegal and 


unethical and a sacrilege.


Yet it's both ok in China and completely ethical here.

In Karl Mark's eyes , the whole capitalistic system is criminal and every manufacturer is exploiting its workers no matter how high or low the employer pay its employees.


By US standard, no manufacturer in China treat its worker humanely unless he has only 1 


worker and he's the boss' son or daughter(his son or daughter will inherit his wealth 


anyway).Nobody would pay U.S. minimum wages(per hr) unless he wants to get out of business and he wants it very badly.


But when you see a slave laborer toiling in an assembly line over 10 hrs a day for just $200 a month or less. petty bad, huh? He might think " Thank heaven i got this job and now i make a lot more money here than in my village tilling rice paddies"  " Come on, Mr XXX , buy from our boss, let our boss treat me more inhumanely and i wanna work 13 hrs a day and then i can make more money and my son needs college tuition , i need money , desperately! Abuse me , pleeees"

Quoting from [Brutusinyiwu]:

First "ethical" is highly relative and subjective word. The standard to what's ethical and what's not varies from country to country , person to person.

?

Brutus I agree with your opinions here.

Well meaning westerners have long tried to impose their beliefs over countries like China and while I am sure their intentions are good, these intentions can have unexpected consequences in practice.

Let me give a personal example.

I previously worked for a large European company that onsold to some of the worlds largest retailers.

One of the factories that we used employed a small percentage of chidren (15-17 years old) in their factory and they were very open about this. There ere only a handful of such workers out of almost 1,000 workers, and the older female staff looked after them, and management ensured that they were also doing easy, safe work, and also getting some education time in the evenings.

A new customer had stringent 'ethical' requirements for factories and one of these procluded the use of workers under 18.

So in order to secure the orders the factory fired those underage workers.

Now in a perfect world, and in the mind of the western humanitarian concept, this would have resulted in the children returning home and then attending school - which to everyones minds is where they should be.

The reality however is very different.

Of course the children were working in the first place for a reason. Perhaps the 'bread winner' of the family was dead or disabled. Perhaps they were just dirt poor. Whatever the reason the children were not going home, they would obviously seek out work elsewhere.

A couple of weeks after these kids were fired one of the 15 year old girls was sucked into a machine at a nearby factory and killed.

So in trying to do the 'ethical' thing by refusing child workers, inadvertently one was sent to her early death.

Not many people are going to suggest that children should be working in factories. I certainly am not. They should be in school getting an education. However, some room needs to be made for the exceptions to the rule where the reality is the child will work, and therefore efforts should be made to ensure that the child is working safely.

As a sales manager in the factory and have been in different factories

I'm sure that you can not find your-mentioned factory in china,

I've never expected to see Karl Marx mentioned at such a place... thanks Brutus


c[ ]

Quoting from [mattES]:


As a musician, I'm pretty enticed by the deals I'm finding from Chinese manufacurers of audio equipment out of Shanghai .  But I'm concerned about making sure who ever I buy from is treating it's workers ethically. 



Most importantly, How do I check if a manufacturer treats it's workers humanely?





What is the ethical standard would you suggest I set as a buyer?

IT IS EASY THE SUPPLIERS  ON THIS SITE ARE CROOKS TAKE HONG KONG HUADIAN AN CARSON WENG DOES IT THE BEST HE SHOULD BE IN JAIL

 

	• Dealing with Chinese Suppliers	• I want to remit to china!
	• Finally found a legitimate company!	• I don't know how to promote here!
	• How to get the loan from bank?	• business opportunites in India
	• Why the customer only enquire?	• Who protects the supplier interest?
	• Shipping charges and options	• Invoice price lower? what can i do?

My Suggestion...

I got on an airplane in Toronto and went to China returning March 21 2009, visiting several suppliers and factories found on Alibaba and elsewhere.

It was an awesome experience. You cannot compare standards of 'ethics' and 'humane workplace' between N. America and China. Those terms evidently do not translate well in other languages. But remember that EVERYTHING is so different between the two cultures that you need think a bit differently. For example, would your purchase order benefit people on both ends of the deal?

So far, I have not placed an order, there are so many factors to consider.

I was very warmly received by my Chinese hosts and I had a really great time, I highly recommend the experience. People are people no matter where you go and my overarching rule is to be as respectful and appreciative as possible in every situation.

Yes, it was a lot of fun, and I will go back again soon! Yours,  Emu.

 

mattES wrote:

As a musician, I'm pretty enticed by the deals I'm finding from Chinese manufacurers of audio equipment out of Shanghai .  But I'm concerned about making sure who ever I buy from is treating it's workers ethically. 





Most importantly, How do I check if a manufacturer treats it's workers humanely?





I've heard a lot of opinions on what is "right" in this situation.  anyone with first hand experience care to lend their opinion?




What is the ethical standard would you suggest I set as a buyer?

hi

Actually I read this post long time ago but I dont know what comments I should give out.

I have never read a post like this. You are the first person I met who demands your suppliers treat their workers humanely.

Who is absolutely ethical in the world?

Does anybody here have experience to buy fish in Chinese supermarket?

There are alive fish in the supermarket here. If you go to buy the fish, they will ask you "kill or not". If you say yes, you will see they catch the fish from the water by a net then throw it onto ground heavily again and again till its dead. The way is so cruel that I had to turn my vision elsewhere and covered my ears. In my heart, I said to my self "Thats too cruel, I dont want to buy the fish."

Should I tell the staff "Pls kill the fish benevolent or I wont buy it" ? Really I wanted to suggest like that but eventually I didnt say like that  cause it seems that sounds too crazy. After the experience, I came to know why there are vegetarian in the world, I think I can understand them well now. Even maybe one day I also will become vegetarian.

So I will suggest you buy fish from suppliers who look benevolent, neither see how the fish will be killed nor ask how it died.

Regards

Hai Ying