HMS 1, 2?
Post 42 of 83
Replying to [Mugs]:what id different beween useed rail and HMS1
06 Oct 2007 02:06
Post 43 of 83
Replying to [iulianap]:
Thanks for giving so much valuable info. abt the h.m.s.
..will you plz give me how much metallization we got in HMS during prod.
of steel..
..and how metallization get calculated.
vishal (india)
Thanks for giving so much valuable info. abt the h.m.s.
..will you plz give me how much metallization we got in HMS during prod.
of steel..
..and how metallization get calculated.
vishal (india)
19 Oct 2007 22:23
Post 44 of 83
Replying to [iulianap]:![[em1]](http://img.alibaba.com/images/eng/style/icon/emoticons_smile.gif)
: very nice explanation
i am really impressed..it is answer from a matured and seasoned person in HMS business
: very nice explanationi am really impressed..it is answer from a matured and seasoned person in HMS business
24 Oct 2007 05:52
Post 45 of 83
Quoting from [THE GREAT DON]:
Replying to [iulianap]:
Thanks for giving so much valuable info. abt the h.m.s.
..will you plz give me how much metallization we got in HMS during prod.
of steel..
..and how metallization get calculated.
vishal (india)
Dear Vishal,
I am sorry,i am not able to answer to your question.Someone who work in a Steel Mill will know for sure many things regarding metallization of HMS
30 Oct 2007 05:48
Post 46 of 83
Replying to [iulianap]:
Iulianp: with the ongoing fraud in the HMS trade how does one safeguard themselves from fraud? I have worked with several sellers but everything falls apart when we get to the Draft contract. Every seller we've been working with either wants a deposit up front of minimum 1 months shipment OR a UNCONDITIONAL BG. No POP before opening of L/C, No proof of past performance, no yard visit. Is this usual?
Iulianp: with the ongoing fraud in the HMS trade how does one safeguard themselves from fraud? I have worked with several sellers but everything falls apart when we get to the Draft contract. Every seller we've been working with either wants a deposit up front of minimum 1 months shipment OR a UNCONDITIONAL BG. No POP before opening of L/C, No proof of past performance, no yard visit. Is this usual?
19 Nov 2007 19:41
Post 47 of 83
Replying to [iulianap]:
Hi . I beleive you are an expert in this business.
Can you also explain ISRI Codes 50-65 or ISRI Codes 202 for me?
Thanks in advance
Hi . I beleive you are an expert in this business.
Can you also explain ISRI Codes 50-65 or ISRI Codes 202 for me?
Thanks in advance
02 Dec 2007 05:41
Post 48 of 83
Replying to [RSUH]:A friend of mine in China asked me to search used rails in US. As first glance, it was extremely attractive. Most of the deal on the web is 30,000MT x 12 month. Even if you make US$1 per MT as commission (many claim to have 2% even 3%), it would be US$360,000.
Trading, not to mention on sc metal, is not my expertise but money sounds good so I dived into it. After one week investigation and research, which is my strength, into this business, I recommend my friend to stay away from it. Based on what I read on this forum, I believe many of you are decent people so I would like to share my thoughts with you.
- First of all, nowadays by internet, it is very easy to find and understand used rails specifications, such as HM1, R50-R65, and financial terms, such as BG, PB, all kind of DLC, etc. With the basic understanding of this, I have moved to more difficult tasks.
- There are so many selling and buying leads on all kinds of trading site, Tradekey, Allibaba, ec21 etc, etc. CIF price is between 200USD to 300USD for used rails R50-R65. I sent messages to ten individuals whom I believe more legit than others (higher CIF price and other selection factors) with a well crafted letter and good story (all real). To my amazement only two responded.
- Further conversations made me uneasy. One first to claim to have materials in Europe but at the end of conversation changed it to USA. That is one technique I learnt to check on people. Ask the same specific question twice during the conversation to see if you get the same answer. I also left phone messages to two reputable companies in US (reputable because they are also doing lots of other deals and with longer history). I got no reply although I believe they were involved in used rails trading. So I am getting suspicious about this business and started thinking seriously.
- I studied hundred of trading messages on the used rails and realized some patterns. The following is my best guess; I am 100% sure I am right. Oldest fraud is the “passport” if you go back to one more year on the trading site. Older scam is the one month down payment. The current method sounds so harmless at the beginning until I talked to one LC (letter of credit) expert. Many brokers insist on 12 month deal, which means automatic revolving DLC is essential. There is a danger that your 12 month payment only gets you one month goods.
- For used rails R50 (51.67kg/m)-R65 (64.72kg/m), it is safe to assume average is 60kg/m. Typical claimed one shipment is 30,000MT. That is equivalent to 500 km worth of used rails. One year supply of 30,000MT per month makes 6000km. To have a sense of that distance, it is 1.5 times of that from New York to Los Angeles. I highly suspect there is such a huge pile of used rails sitting there.
- Then I figure the companies that actually have used rails are the ones removing old tracks. I was able to identify no more than five in US. I called one of them. It happens to have and wants to get rid of 250MT of used rails because of incoming cold weather. I was quoted about $1000 per MT as FOB Chicago. Of course there is a room for negotiation but not that much, considering this is in US. So how on earth do brokers claim to have materials at CIF $200-300 ASWP for used rails R50-R65.
- More research shows that in rails business, some people actually buy used rails to “relay”, that is, to use it again as tracks. If that is a viable business, the stocks for used rails as scrap metal is even less.
- All in all, it does not make any sense to am any more about his business.
It is a long message and I am getting tired too. The moral of this story is that if it sounds too good to be true, it is. Of course someone can argue situation in places other than US is different. Then I wish you luck and am looking forward to hearing your successful stories.
Trading, not to mention on sc metal, is not my expertise but money sounds good so I dived into it. After one week investigation and research, which is my strength, into this business, I recommend my friend to stay away from it. Based on what I read on this forum, I believe many of you are decent people so I would like to share my thoughts with you.
- First of all, nowadays by internet, it is very easy to find and understand used rails specifications, such as HM1, R50-R65, and financial terms, such as BG, PB, all kind of DLC, etc. With the basic understanding of this, I have moved to more difficult tasks.
- There are so many selling and buying leads on all kinds of trading site, Tradekey, Allibaba, ec21 etc, etc. CIF price is between 200USD to 300USD for used rails R50-R65. I sent messages to ten individuals whom I believe more legit than others (higher CIF price and other selection factors) with a well crafted letter and good story (all real). To my amazement only two responded.
- Further conversations made me uneasy. One first to claim to have materials in Europe but at the end of conversation changed it to USA. That is one technique I learnt to check on people. Ask the same specific question twice during the conversation to see if you get the same answer. I also left phone messages to two reputable companies in US (reputable because they are also doing lots of other deals and with longer history). I got no reply although I believe they were involved in used rails trading. So I am getting suspicious about this business and started thinking seriously.
- I studied hundred of trading messages on the used rails and realized some patterns. The following is my best guess; I am 100% sure I am right. Oldest fraud is the “passport” if you go back to one more year on the trading site. Older scam is the one month down payment. The current method sounds so harmless at the beginning until I talked to one LC (letter of credit) expert. Many brokers insist on 12 month deal, which means automatic revolving DLC is essential. There is a danger that your 12 month payment only gets you one month goods.
- For used rails R50 (51.67kg/m)-R65 (64.72kg/m), it is safe to assume average is 60kg/m. Typical claimed one shipment is 30,000MT. That is equivalent to 500 km worth of used rails. One year supply of 30,000MT per month makes 6000km. To have a sense of that distance, it is 1.5 times of that from New York to Los Angeles. I highly suspect there is such a huge pile of used rails sitting there.
- Then I figure the companies that actually have used rails are the ones removing old tracks. I was able to identify no more than five in US. I called one of them. It happens to have and wants to get rid of 250MT of used rails because of incoming cold weather. I was quoted about $1000 per MT as FOB Chicago. Of course there is a room for negotiation but not that much, considering this is in US. So how on earth do brokers claim to have materials at CIF $200-300 ASWP for used rails R50-R65.
- More research shows that in rails business, some people actually buy used rails to “relay”, that is, to use it again as tracks. If that is a viable business, the stocks for used rails as scrap metal is even less.
- All in all, it does not make any sense to am any more about his business.
It is a long message and I am getting tired too. The moral of this story is that if it sounds too good to be true, it is. Of course someone can argue situation in places other than US is different. Then I wish you luck and am looking forward to hearing your successful stories.
13 Dec 2007 21:13
Post 49 of 83
Replying to [shouming]:
This was a very enlightening article. Thank you. I passed it on to some people already.
This was a very enlightening article. Thank you. I passed it on to some people already.
15 Dec 2007 12:21
Post 50 of 83
Replying to [varyag]:
Please let us know the complete details of HMS 1,2
Please let us know the complete details of HMS 1,2
18 Dec 2007 01:08
Post 51 of 83
Replying to [Nokia]:
How much per ton to Sihanouk Ville, Cambodia? Please email me at attorneypaul2000@yahoo.com E-mail address deleted by Mod
How much per ton to Sihanouk Ville, Cambodia? Please email me at attorneypaul2000@yahoo.com E-mail address deleted by Mod
07 Jan 2008 01:23