Hello

I am sourcing a reputable company to supply cosmetic packaging, airless bottles and boxes etc.

To start with, I require 1500 units to ensure quality etc, before placing larger orders, and I ask my questions very clearly. I keep getting suppliers offering me 10000, I don't want that many or I would've asked for it. I've also had people contacting me with strange offers and had to change my details so I wasn't harrassed.

First, it is near impossible to have the questions answered. Especially ones asking for references of happy customers or information about the suppliers company! Of course they'll say they're trustworthy!

I have been emailing several but the first was interesting. I was told when asking for her business credentials that this was pretty rude and that she had children to feed and I should just pay and then I'd get my products... She was very angry when I terminated the communications.

Second, there are 'trust' issues for both supplier and buyer, and how does one get trust when questions are repeatedly unanswered?!

Third, what is the safest payment method? With T/T or Paypal, it is known that 'scammers' can also use these methods and as a buyer you are warned against paying this way? I read a post saying that B/L  needs to be asked for too, and there are 2 types of Bill of Lading and a buyer should ask the type the supplier refers to. It is confusing!

If anyone has some useful advice, it would be appreciated. I know I could get an agent, but then again, who........

Thanks!

BB

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If I am reading your post correctly you are looking to buy packaging products at least some of which I assume have your name on them or are made to your design.

If so then it is pretty standard for factories to require high minimum order quantities for specialized work or packaging. I understand that for you 1,500 pcs may be plenty but perhaps for the factory their other customers are ordering tens of thousands of pieces and as they can get that from other customers they also expect that from you.

This is the catch 22 for buyers like yourself. Understandably you want to try to find the most professional factory to deal with, but in order to get in the door of those factories you need to be customer of interest. 1,500 pcs is just not interesting enough for them to spend their time on even if there is potential for more in the future. Chinese factories often concentrate on today regardless of the future.

My suggestion is that you find yourself an agent in China who can source smaller but competant factories to do this work for you. You will then be killing two birds with one stone. Yes you will need to pay that agent a couple of hundred dollars but that will be money well spent if it gets your production into a competant factory.

Bear in mind that if you do want packaging under your name that most factories will not offer you a sample as they would need to make a mould to make a sample. So you are going to need to work on electrical files until you are ready to commit to paying for a mould. Once the mould is made you best get a couple of samples shipped to you to check the quality and the color - both of which you cannot check in a photo. You should then sign and return one of those samples to your agent or the factory to act as the confirmationn sample.

I am fortunate enough to spend a lot of time in China. We make our own packaging for the products that we produce in China and we then send this completed packaging out to the relevant factories. The packaging factory I deal with is very much a local factory but at the end of the day they produce great packaging at a fantastic price. They do however make the most amzing errors all the time which I am fortunately able to catch as I visit the factory myself.

You can find a list of assistants in China on the Due Dilligence forum here at alibaba. Contact some of them with your needs and see if they can help you. I think that Jasmine probably has a good deal of experience with this packaging issue so you should include her in the list of people you contact.

Hello and thankyou fro your detailed reply!

I just want to clarify:

I am seeking 1500 units as a sample to go with the 1500 other units which I already have. I wish to compare two lots to see which has best quality and which supplier I prefer. 1x sample bottle won't give me the info I require. The bottles I'm seeking are required unprinted as I already have all labelling etc here done, and they are widely used and common ones. I will then place a larger order, in the vicinity of what manufacturers (MF) are used to. However, I won't place an order for 5000+, when they aren't tested by me, nor do I believe the MF would offer me a guarantee and refund my money when customers are sending their products back. When I'm happy with the products, I require a full packaging service and supply, with screen printing. Thanks for your reference of Jasmine, I'll contact her....

On another note, I don't know if alibaba has this, but a dedicated feedback section where prospective business partners can check the feedback left from previous people (transactions) would be very useful. It could be a similar system to getafreelancer dot com. The only people who can leave feedback is the buyer and seller and it is rated out of 10, with comments. It is available for registered users to see and it must be left within a short time after the transaction has been completed. It can't be changed or modified by another party and if there is negative feedback, there is the opportunity to respond, so future business partners can view it. This would help to weed out scammers; tell others how the transcations went; what product quality was like; company service; buyer payment etc...

BB

If you are placing an order for something that the factory already has in stock then moulds etc will obviously not be an issue unless.....

....the supplier may be listing product pictures for items that they can make but are not currently making. In this case they may not want to tell you this but of course they will want large quantities to develop the product.

I think that what you are asking is reasonable and it is just a matter of finding the right supplier that is willing to negotiate.

Regarding the feedback issue it has been raised here before and generally accepted that it is not suited to this site. Feedback is good on such sites as ebay where buyers and sellers are actively using the website to undertake the transaction and where the website themselves can monitor what has happened.

Alibaba is more like a telephone book where you find listings of companies of interest and then contact them off the website for business. Alibaba has no knowledge nor control over what happens and therefore cannot really be accepting comments that they have no way of verifying.

My main concern with such a system however is that it may make people lazy. There is no substitute to doing due dilligence and checking sellers out before you send money.

Quoting from [Egernia]:

If you are placing an order for something that the factory already has in stock then moulds etc will obviously not be an issue unless.....

....the supplier may be listing product pictures for items that they can make but are not currently making. In this case they may not want to tell you this but of course they will want large quantities to develop the product.

I think that what you are asking is reasonable and it is just a matter of finding the right supplier that is willing to negotiate.

Regarding the feedback issue it has been raised here before and generally accepted that it is not suited to this site. Feedback is good on such sites as ebay where buyers and sellers are actively using the website to undertake the transaction and where the website themselves can monitor what has happened.

Alibaba is more like a telephone book where you find listings of companies of interest and then contact them off the website for business. Alibaba has no knowledge nor control over what happens and therefore cannot really be accepting comments that they have no way of verifying.

My main concern with such a system however is that it may make people lazy. There is no substitute to doing due dilligence and checking sellers out before you send money.

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Quoting from [BB]:

Hello

I am sourcing a reputable company to supply cosmetic packaging, airless bottles and boxes etc.

To start with, I require 1500 units to ensure quality etc, before placing larger orders, and I ask my questions very clearly. I keep getting suppliers offering me 10000, I don't want that many or I would've asked for it. I've also had people contacting me with strange offers and had to change my details so I wasn't harrassed.

If you order from products' manufactory not clude mould making ,there will be MOQ,because they should help you to find mould supplier for your products .the mould fee will be deducted from order if larger quantity .

If you order from mould & products' manufactory ,the supplier won't care how small of your quantity ,because you should pay the mould fee/quantity + unit process cost .so,if you order more ,the unit price will be cheaper .

First, it is near impossible to have the questions answered. Especially ones asking for references of happy customers or information about the suppliers company! Of course they'll say they're trustworthy!

Lol Of course every buddy will say they are trustworthy .

I have been emailing several but the first was interesting. I was told when asking for her business credentials that this was pretty rude and that she had children to feed and I should just pay and then I'd get my products... She was very angry when I terminated the communications.

HAHA ,So funny .You are really unfortunately !

Second, there are 'trust' issues for both supplier and buyer, and how does one get trust when questions are repeatedly unanswered?!

Agree with you .I think both supplier and buyer should reply and answer timely and clearly .But in my opinion .the buyer always keep silence about the result .if you are interested in the supplier quotation ,please accept timely .or else ,please refuse fast .right ?

Third, what is the safest payment method? With T/T or Paypal, it is known that 'scammers' can also use these methods and as a buyer you are warned against paying this way? I read a post saying that B/L  needs to be asked for too, and there are 2 types of Bill of Lading and a buyer should ask the type the supplier refers to. It is confusing!

I think ,if you agree with all of supplier's quotation except payment method .it's not necessay . You must contacted each other for a long time .Right ? You can judge him as per his usual response for your email . What's more ,it is very easy to find his factory adress and you can visit it any time .

Different industries adopt different payment method becaude of the domestic market . different fees also can affect the payment method .

If anyone has some useful advice, it would be appreciated. I know I could get an agent, but then again, who........

Thanks!

BB

Quoting from [BB]:

Hello

I am sourcing a reputable company to supply cosmetic packaging, airless bottles and boxes etc.

To start with, I require 1500 units to ensure quality etc, before placing larger orders, and I ask my questions very clearly. I keep getting suppliers offering me 10000, I don't want that many or I would've asked for it. I've also had people contacting me with strange offers and had to change my details so I wasn't harrassed.

First, it is near impossible to have the questions answered. Especially ones asking for references of happy customers or information about the suppliers company! Of course they'll say they're trustworthy!

I have been emailing several but the first was interesting. I was told when asking for her business credentials that this was pretty rude and that she had children to feed and I should just pay and then I'd get my products... She was very angry when I terminated the communications.

Second, there are 'trust' issues for both supplier and buyer, and how does one get trust when questions are repeatedly unanswered?!

Third, what is the safest payment method? With T/T or Paypal, it is known that 'scammers' can also use these methods and as a buyer you are warned against paying this way? I read a post saying that B/L  needs to be asked for too, and there are 2 types of Bill of Lading and a buyer should ask the type the supplier refers to. It is confusing!

If anyone has some useful advice, it would be appreciated. I know I could get an agent, but then again, who........

Thanks!

BB

you stated or asked "Second, there are 'trust' issues for both supplier and buyer, and how does one get trust when questions are repeatedly unanswered?!"

Answer is you DONT!

Trust is for school children in playgrounds to learn not adults in the business field.

If things are based on trust there are no need for contracts as we "trust each other". Pure nonsense!

Forget trust, get written documentary proof of who they are, what they are offering terms conditions etc, then if you agree to their terms accpet, if not move on.

Documentary proof and SOLID CONTRACTS ENFORCEABLE BY LAW are one's only protection not TRUST!

I negotiated or attempted to negotiate a deal that took 2 weeks. I received appropriate SOFT OFFER FCO DRAFT CONTRACT with ALL the requirements met in the ICPO I issued to the so called REPUTATBLE SELLER.

They even  sent me their sanitized SLEE'S MANDATE LETTER/AGREEMENT AND A RWA LETTER ON COMPANY LETTERHEAD AND SIGNED AND SEALED.

ALAS the final contract arrives and lo and behold, all the terms changed the origin changed and the payment form changed as t what was on the DRAFT CONTRACT that we signed.

WhenI  asked about this, the response was "just sign the contract"! They wanted us to sign a contract and pay them 100's of millions of dollars for something we didnt want nor order nor describe on the ICPO issued.

AND YES THEY PERSISTED AND INSISTED. I EVEN GOT A PERSONAL CALL FROM THE CHAIRPERSON I BELIEVE, OF THE COMPANY. WHEN QUESTIONED ON THE BROKEN ASSURANCES, AGREEMENTS ETC ... I WAS TOLD I WAS CRAZY, NUTS AND UNREASONALBE!

SO good luck in your endevours!

Quoting from [BB]:

Hello

I am sourcing a reputable company to supply cosmetic packaging, airless bottles and boxes etc.

To start with, I require 1500 units to ensure quality etc, before placing larger orders, and I ask my questions very clearly. I keep getting suppliers offering me 10000, I don't want that many or I would've asked for it. I've also had people contacting me with strange offers and had to change my details so I wasn't harrassed.

First, it is near impossible to have the questions answered. Especially ones asking for references of happy customers or information about the suppliers company! Of course they'll say they're trustworthy!

I have been emailing several but the first was interesting. I was told when asking for her business credentials that this was pretty rude and that she had children to feed and I should just pay and then I'd get my products... She was very angry when I terminated the communications.

Second, there are 'trust' issues for both supplier and buyer, and how does one get trust when questions are repeatedly unanswered?!

Third, what is the safest payment method? With T/T or Paypal, it is known that 'scammers' can also use these methods and as a buyer you are warned against paying this way? I read a post saying that B/L  needs to be asked for too, and there are 2 types of Bill of Lading and a buyer should ask the type the supplier refers to. It is confusing!

If anyone has some useful advice, it would be appreciated. I know I could get an agent, but then again, who........

Thanks!

BB

Hi

Thankyou for your answers, I read all of them and they were helpful.

It is a bit of a difficult exercise for both supplier and buyer it seems at times, which in most cases could be eased by employing different tactics. Of course, these need to be learnt...

What a shame it can be hard, but I guess money seems to be the driver for many people which means they're willing to dupe; take advantage of people; lie; cheat and steal - in some cases! It is unfortunate people have had bad experiences, but also fortunate that others have had good ones. Perhaps Ergenia as you say, due diligence is the key.

Regarding the 'trust' issue - it is a broad term I used for a large sentiment. Trust means not just accepting at face value what someone says such as in a children's playground, but in a adult business world, where things are far different. I agree that documentation is necessary, but what I was referring to is establishing a form of 'trust' to even begin trading and obtianing documents etc and going further with transactions. This means trying to esablish that the person you're thinking of dealing with is not a 'fraudster' first, which it seems everyone is concerned about at some point. It is not always possible for all people to physically check out suppliers. Yes, I guess that's where you would consider an agent... if you can 'trust' them. Most are pretty good, as with all things it is the MINORITY who give the majority a bad name. What a rollercoaster!

Re the idea of the feedback section - it would be a large undertaking, and I understand that Alibaba couldn't effectively police it and ensure safe, successful transactions as it not in their scope of business... kind of.. It is unfortunate. Do you think that that sort of information would make people lazy and not do their due diligence? I thought it would serve more as a guide to prospective business partners. At least, you would hope so, and that it would not negate the fact that you still need to do your checking!

Thanks again for your replies.

BB

RE Feedback yes I am sure it would make people lazy.

Currently a smart buyer needs to spend a lot of time and even some money to ensure that the seller they want to deal with is an actual seller and that the product they are offering is what the customer wants to buy. The buyer can learn a lot during this due dilligence process.

If buyers could log on to the site and see green ticks for good feedback etc many new buyers would likely just do nothing more to check their supplier.

The problem is that as alibaba is not involved in the transaction there is no way that buyers can really know whether or not that feedback is real or fake.

But moving away from all of that you should never rely upon what others say anyway. It is your money and if you are looking at importing product then you are looking at more than purchasing product but in investing money in business.

The only way to make effective investments is to know who your partners are and I would not rely on a few ticks and crosses from people I dont know in this regard.

As far as fraudsters well I doubt that you will find any in the products that you are looking for. I am confident that all of the factories you will contact will be real factories with product to sell. The question is can they do the job you are asking of them and that is something that no feedback system can tell you. you need to work that one out for yourself by doing your homework.