How do scammers flourish? How do we stop them?
Post 1 of 46
First off Alibaba is not a scam!!!! This is a B2B Marketing web site. China Suppliers and Trust Pass Members pay a fee for the ability to ADVERTISE on this site. This is not Ebay its not Taobao. There are no auctions here.
The scam has been around since man realized that there were greedy, not informed, not schooled, other human beings that were looking for something for nothing. We hear about email scams, lottery scams, and business scams. What is the single most thing that entices people to respond to these scams? MONEY - In the form of something for nothing or almost nothing.
Rule of thumb - If its to good to be true, IT IS.
Every product made has a minimum cost to produce. If you don't have a clue about a product or service you want to buy how can you make an informed decision?
EXAMPLE: Apple has been successful for many years. They come out with the iPod it costs X amount of dollars to produce. However to make money they must mass produce the item. They mark up the item 20-30% for sale on their own sites which becomes the MSRP. However, in order to market them around the world they sell them to authorized distributors for a 50% discount on the MSRP mark-up who in turn sells them to retailers or VAR's (Value Added Re-sellers) for a price around 7-12% of MSRP depending on quantities ordered. If you follow this progression of formula's you would find that a retailer would be making about 7-15USD on each 4GB iPOD they sold. Here again they are not making vast amounts of money from selling 1 or 2 but because they are selling hundreds. Also its a clear fact that most of them oney made in electronic's is on the accessories not the actual products themselves. Like replacement headphones docking stations, iPod surround sound.
This process is followed by all companies with Brand names that have no self distribution. Therefore if you see Name Brand items advertised for more than 10-15% off MSRP price you need to be highly suspect of the seller and exhaust all avenues in completing "Due Diligence".
STOPPING THEM
1.) Eliminate the greed in yourself.
2.) Be informed, know the product.
3.) Exhaust the available resources for confirming trade partners.
4.) Never do first time deals via the internet alone.
5.) Get a pre-shippment inspection done by a reputable service.
6.) Don't pay until you recieve the inspection. If they want 30% in advance tell them you need a factory audit first.
Inspections are honored by real suppliers and manufacturer's it also sends them a signal that you are a serious buyer. Lastly understand that you can not buy a branded product from anyone other than the manufacturer or factory authorized distributors and VAR's
Best regards,
Ranger
The scam has been around since man realized that there were greedy, not informed, not schooled, other human beings that were looking for something for nothing. We hear about email scams, lottery scams, and business scams. What is the single most thing that entices people to respond to these scams? MONEY - In the form of something for nothing or almost nothing.
Rule of thumb - If its to good to be true, IT IS.
Every product made has a minimum cost to produce. If you don't have a clue about a product or service you want to buy how can you make an informed decision?
EXAMPLE: Apple has been successful for many years. They come out with the iPod it costs X amount of dollars to produce. However to make money they must mass produce the item. They mark up the item 20-30% for sale on their own sites which becomes the MSRP. However, in order to market them around the world they sell them to authorized distributors for a 50% discount on the MSRP mark-up who in turn sells them to retailers or VAR's (Value Added Re-sellers) for a price around 7-12% of MSRP depending on quantities ordered. If you follow this progression of formula's you would find that a retailer would be making about 7-15USD on each 4GB iPOD they sold. Here again they are not making vast amounts of money from selling 1 or 2 but because they are selling hundreds. Also its a clear fact that most of them oney made in electronic's is on the accessories not the actual products themselves. Like replacement headphones docking stations, iPod surround sound.
This process is followed by all companies with Brand names that have no self distribution. Therefore if you see Name Brand items advertised for more than 10-15% off MSRP price you need to be highly suspect of the seller and exhaust all avenues in completing "Due Diligence".
STOPPING THEM
1.) Eliminate the greed in yourself.
2.) Be informed, know the product.
3.) Exhaust the available resources for confirming trade partners.
4.) Never do first time deals via the internet alone.
5.) Get a pre-shippment inspection done by a reputable service.
6.) Don't pay until you recieve the inspection. If they want 30% in advance tell them you need a factory audit first.
Inspections are honored by real suppliers and manufacturer's it also sends them a signal that you are a serious buyer. Lastly understand that you can not buy a branded product from anyone other than the manufacturer or factory authorized distributors and VAR's
Best regards,
Ranger
SIGNATURE:
About Our Company
Me Tech Supply
ME Tech Supply a D. B. A provides sourcing solutions for both small and medium sized businesses. We are members of the GSAA whose Agents have verified more than 2. 5 million companies World WideWe offer low cos...
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27 Jan 2007 15:29
Post 2 of 46
Replying to [ranger]:when do business with Chinese suppliers, make sure you are not only getting their company name in English but also in Chinese. The English name is not registered with gov. dept. , only the Chinese name. Sometimes if you only know the English name of the company, it may be a fake company, very difficult to keep track of it.
11 Apr 2007 04:21
Post 4 of 46
Replying to [Ranger]:
I was thinking to setup a company to work as agent/representative in respective area in China/Asia to inspect company background and credit facility to buyer. But this will need a local good reputation people to support else no one will trust this company.
I believe this will minimize the scammer but increase little cost to buyer.
I was thinking to setup a company to work as agent/representative in respective area in China/Asia to inspect company background and credit facility to buyer. But this will need a local good reputation people to support else no one will trust this company.
I believe this will minimize the scammer but increase little cost to buyer.
13 Apr 2007 19:41
Post 5 of 46
Replying to [odyssey999]:Hi, can you tell me how to report a specific website "nikeshoesmvp.com" and the person"Guofu Cai or Felix Chen" to the proper authority? and He's in CHINA. I'm a US citizen.
thanks.
thanks.
23 Apr 2007 22:53
Post 8 of 46
Replying to [ChinaLawyer]: Ms. Yan, this is a fact I have known for a very long time. But is great to have a practicing Chinese lawyer such as yourself to actually come into the forum and say it. Many thanks ![[em19]](http://img.alibaba.com/images/eng/style/icon/emoticons_great.gif)
![[em15]](http://img.alibaba.com/images/eng/style/icon/emoticons_wish_you_wealth.gif)
Best regards,
Ranger
Best regards,
Ranger
SIGNATURE:
About Our Company
Me Tech Supply
ME Tech Supply a D. B. A provides sourcing solutions for both small and medium sized businesses. We are members of the GSAA whose Agents have verified more than 2. 5 million companies World WideWe offer low cos...
More
14 May 2007 13:03
Post 9 of 46
Replying to [Vetto Promotions Ltd]: Vetto I know of one true distributor in HK but even they will tell you that no one can sell to you from China and or any other country cheaper than you can buy from a re-seller in your own country. Contact Apple Europe for a re-seller or distributor nearest your location.
Ranger
Ranger
SIGNATURE:
About Our Company
Me Tech Supply
ME Tech Supply a D. B. A provides sourcing solutions for both small and medium sized businesses. We are members of the GSAA whose Agents have verified more than 2. 5 million companies World WideWe offer low cos...
More
14 May 2007 13:08
Post 10 of 46
Replying to [Ranger]:
All good points Ranger and I agree with you on all those. No offense is every taken to anyone who expresses their own opinions, especially when it's fact supported.
That being said, it's true that as a free member I have the ability to make deals, but clearly not as many as a paid member. Also I'm at the stage in business where I no longer have to rely on trade boards for deals. Being smart in business and performing my due diligence helped that. However the comparison to Paypal was really more or less about protecting the brand name of Alibaba. How many customers do you think they'll lose in a year because the allow fraud to happen? It's true that you do have to pay for the security of most US base wholesale boards, it's a service fee I've never had a problem of paying. Where it's true Paypal and Ebay charges fees everytime for transaction, I'm sure you consider that a cost of business. Whe your scammed by an unscruplious Gold Member of Alibaba, that's not a cost of business that is wanted or calculated. ;)
Most of the Asian B2B sites are run by Chinese and ultimately it shows just how far they have to go before they can catch up to the western world in terms of credibility. You rarely hear about credibility issues with US companies because Us businesses knows there is a price to pay for fraud.
I think that is really one of the main points. There is just little protection for foreigners in most Asian countries which makes it difficult for any small business, or business that is not in the country they're doing business in to be successful.
regards,
James
WDC Intl Inc
All good points Ranger and I agree with you on all those. No offense is every taken to anyone who expresses their own opinions, especially when it's fact supported.
That being said, it's true that as a free member I have the ability to make deals, but clearly not as many as a paid member. Also I'm at the stage in business where I no longer have to rely on trade boards for deals. Being smart in business and performing my due diligence helped that. However the comparison to Paypal was really more or less about protecting the brand name of Alibaba. How many customers do you think they'll lose in a year because the allow fraud to happen? It's true that you do have to pay for the security of most US base wholesale boards, it's a service fee I've never had a problem of paying. Where it's true Paypal and Ebay charges fees everytime for transaction, I'm sure you consider that a cost of business. Whe your scammed by an unscruplious Gold Member of Alibaba, that's not a cost of business that is wanted or calculated. ;)
Most of the Asian B2B sites are run by Chinese and ultimately it shows just how far they have to go before they can catch up to the western world in terms of credibility. You rarely hear about credibility issues with US companies because Us businesses knows there is a price to pay for fraud.
I think that is really one of the main points. There is just little protection for foreigners in most Asian countries which makes it difficult for any small business, or business that is not in the country they're doing business in to be successful.
regards,
James
WDC Intl Inc
21 May 2007 01:03
Post 11 of 46
Replying to [Ranger]:
we received one email from alibaba.com,details as following:
acDear Sir,
We have received a notice from Silverlit Toys Manufactory Ltd (the IPR Owner) that your posting of Mini Helicopter (Model No: 1350) (the Product) by Saif Enterprise (H. K) Limited on the Alibaba website
http://www.alibaba.com/catalog/11140615/mini_helicopter.html
http://www.alibaba.com/manufacturer/13300480/Mini_Helicopter.html
(the "Listing") infringes on the IPR Owner's Patent (Reg. No.: : PRC: 200530077353.3, 200630050051.1). While we are not in a position to judge the merits of the claim, Alibaba's policy is we will not aid any person in any infringing activity, and we will take action to protect you from potential legal liability. Accordingly, we have removed the Listing from the Alibaba website.
You may wish to directly take up this dispute with the IPR Owner, their contact information is as follows:-
Silverlit Toys Manufactory Ltd
Attn: Monic Choi (Senior Manager -Marketing)
Address: 1701-03, World Trade Centre, 280, Gloucester Road, Causeway Bay, Hong Kong
Tel: 852 2916 2328
Fax: 852 2834 8797
Email: monic@silverlit.com
Please do not post any listings or trade leads for the Product without the prior written consent of Alibabas Legal Department. If you post any such listings, your Company may be sued by the IPR Owner for infringement. Please ensure that the remaining product listings posted on our website do not infringe the rights of other intellectual property owners. If we receive another notice of claimed infringement regarding products posted by your Company on our website, we may permanently disable your account.
Thank you for your understanding in this matter.
Regards,
Alibaba.com Legal Department
We are suprised that the helicopter designed by our own,and the outlook and funtions,parts are differnt with the picooz from Silverlit Toys Manufactory Ltd.
Meanwhile,we requested Silverlit Toys Manufactory Ltd to provide us Patent Certificates origin,but the Silverlit Toys Manufactory Ltd,no people received calling,no people reply.
However,the Silverlit Toys Manufactory Ltd have requested to cancelled our pictures and relevant information,bring our company great damage in reputation and economic.
If the Silverlit Toys Manufactory Ltd will not provide relevant evidence on the issue,we have to sue and charge them on the artificial certificates,and fraud crimes,and compensate us relevant loss and damage in economic and reputation.
However,we called the Silverlit many times, no people received callings,no people reply, WHY?
the Silverlit Toys Manufactory Ltd is Fraud?
we received one email from alibaba.com,details as following:
acDear Sir,
We have received a notice from Silverlit Toys Manufactory Ltd (the IPR Owner) that your posting of Mini Helicopter (Model No: 1350) (the Product) by Saif Enterprise (H. K) Limited on the Alibaba website
http://www.alibaba.com/catalog/11140615/mini_helicopter.html
http://www.alibaba.com/manufacturer/13300480/Mini_Helicopter.html
(the "Listing") infringes on the IPR Owner's Patent (Reg. No.: : PRC: 200530077353.3, 200630050051.1). While we are not in a position to judge the merits of the claim, Alibaba's policy is we will not aid any person in any infringing activity, and we will take action to protect you from potential legal liability. Accordingly, we have removed the Listing from the Alibaba website.
You may wish to directly take up this dispute with the IPR Owner, their contact information is as follows:-
Silverlit Toys Manufactory Ltd
Attn: Monic Choi (Senior Manager -Marketing)
Address: 1701-03, World Trade Centre, 280, Gloucester Road, Causeway Bay, Hong Kong
Tel: 852 2916 2328
Fax: 852 2834 8797
Email: monic@silverlit.com
Please do not post any listings or trade leads for the Product without the prior written consent of Alibabas Legal Department. If you post any such listings, your Company may be sued by the IPR Owner for infringement. Please ensure that the remaining product listings posted on our website do not infringe the rights of other intellectual property owners. If we receive another notice of claimed infringement regarding products posted by your Company on our website, we may permanently disable your account.
Thank you for your understanding in this matter.
Regards,
Alibaba.com Legal Department
We are suprised that the helicopter designed by our own,and the outlook and funtions,parts are differnt with the picooz from Silverlit Toys Manufactory Ltd.
Meanwhile,we requested Silverlit Toys Manufactory Ltd to provide us Patent Certificates origin,but the Silverlit Toys Manufactory Ltd,no people received calling,no people reply.
However,the Silverlit Toys Manufactory Ltd have requested to cancelled our pictures and relevant information,bring our company great damage in reputation and economic.
If the Silverlit Toys Manufactory Ltd will not provide relevant evidence on the issue,we have to sue and charge them on the artificial certificates,and fraud crimes,and compensate us relevant loss and damage in economic and reputation.
However,we called the Silverlit many times, no people received callings,no people reply, WHY?
the Silverlit Toys Manufactory Ltd is Fraud?
24 May 2007 01:24