Quoting from [sogans]:Quoting from [germex]:One year only? I would love to see your prediction come true!
Any specific reason you are so optimistic?
Why don't we mention the "taboo" word "Hydrogen on Demand" systems. Instead of lugging around huge and bulky tanks of hydrogen (which in itself is a safety hazard). Not considering that hydrogen itself also has a permanent "leakage" problem where the volatile gas can seep out of relatively "air tight" tanks in short periods of time. Why not carry the hydrogen in its most safe and logical form as H20 = WATER where 1 gallon of water = 1833 gallons of HHO gas and let "onboard" splitting systems with less energy than it takes to power a car stereo or much less than an A/C system are able to deliver gratuitous amounts of Hydrogen alone (with the Oxygen vented) or the combined gas HHO (which is an even more efficient fuel) to supplement existing engine's traditional fuel supply. Just as NASA in its space flights or thousands of "tinkerers" and experimenters (myself included) throughout the world are doing much to the displeasure of the oil companies and certain corporate interests today.
Quoting from [forstercam]:
the only problem I"VE found with HHO is bypassing the computer a lean burn tells the computer burn more gass so my addicted oxysensor can sent the required amount of polution out the tailpipe seems to great a problem for our epa and auto mfgs to accomplish 2 to 300 dollars a half dozen 1 litre some baking soda add water and 12 volt power less than 1 amp and gentlemen start your engines
First a disclaimer: I am in no way associated with any enterprise that has even remotely to do with HHO and its respective technology, products, etc.
What you could do is googling for George Wiseman. He not only develops the necessary equipment to produce HHO, but he also sells an electronic circuit that "tames" your oxygen sensor. You'll need one of them for each sensor, and that should solve the problem. Good luck! ![[em19]](http://img.alibaba.com/images/eng/style/icon/emoticons_great.gif){kind=icon}
Quoting from [germex]:If I understood that right, hydrogen is already well accepted as a magnificent fuel. The only problems it still faces is regarding safe storage in light tanks inside the car. - What is your opinion on that?
I still feel, according to all evidence I see so far, self-generating hydrogen generators or "on demand" supply, is certainly the safest thing to look at right now. There are too many new & changing things that warrant this as a viability, I don't see how it can be ignored or hidden any longer.
Quoting from [colegg]:
I still feel, according to all evidence I see so far, self-generating hydrogen generators or "on demand" supply, is certainly the safest thing to look at right now. There are too many new & changing things that warrant this as a viability, I don't see how it can be ignored or hidden any longer.
The reason is very simple: PHYSICS! You will always need more energy to dissociate the atoms that compose a molecule than what you get back when you recombine them (like when you burn the H+O combination). So you are better off using that initial energy directly.
The only logical reason for doing otherwise would be safety. Having only water in your tank fulfills of course this requirement, but the big and heavy energy source you would have to haul around with you just to dissociate the water makes this system unreasonable.
What would work is a system where you do at least most of the energy-intensive work at a centralized "power plant", ideally with the help of solar energy, and then only have to "invest" very little energy inside your car to convert the ingredients into combustibles. But so far nobody has found such a system.
Quoting from [saraenterprise]:
Our long-term EfficientDynamics strategy can be summed up with one vehicle: the BMW Hydrogen 7. As the world's first luxury performance sedan with hydrogen drive, it runs on the most plentiful element in the world and emits virtually nothing but water vapor. And because the infrastructure for refueling a hydrogen internal combustion engine is not yet complete, the V-12 engine also runs on gasoline at the push of a button, though emissions will result. But all it takes is the power of the Hydrogen 7's 12-cylinder, 260 horsepower engine to prove the capability of our EfficientDynamics. The BMW Hydrogen 7 is not available for purchase at this time, but is considered to be a milestone in bringing forward hydrogen as the sustainable fuel for individual transportation.
On a global level, hydrogen technology addresses the growing gaps in the supply of fossil fuels. More specifically, it is the only fuel that can allow for a reduction in the overall emission cycle, while meeting our energy needs in a sustainable way. Besides, not many fuels can be produced from renewable sources such as sun, wind, water and biom *.
Determined to bring the power of hydrogen to the world, our initiative goes far beyond the vehicle itself. We are already collaborating with a wide range of dedicated partners, from global fuel distributors and fuel technology companies to government agencies and environmental groups. Today in Germany, there are five liquid hydrogen refueling stations - and soon there will be two in the US. Developed with Linde AG, they are virtually as easy to use as normal gasoline pumps.
Quoting from [saraenterprise]:
Our long-term EfficientDynamics strategy can be summed up with one vehicle: the BMW Hydrogen 7. As the world's first luxury performance sedan with hydrogen drive, it runs on the most plentiful element in the world and emits virtually nothing but water vapor. And because the infrastructure for refueling a hydrogen internal combustion engine is not yet complete, the V-12 engine also runs on gasoline at the push of a button, though emissions will result. But all it takes is the power of the Hydrogen 7's 12-cylinder, 260 horsepower engine to prove the capability of our EfficientDynamics. The BMW Hydrogen 7 is not available for purchase at this time, but is considered to be a milestone in bringing forward hydrogen as the sustainable fuel for individual transportation.
On a global level, hydrogen technology addresses the growing gaps in the supply of fossil fuels. More specifically, it is the only fuel that can allow for a reduction in the overall emission cycle, while meeting our energy needs in a sustainable way. Besides, not many fuels can be produced from renewable sources such as sun, wind, water and biom *.
Determined to bring the power of hydrogen to the world, our initiative goes far beyond the vehicle itself. We are already collaborating with a wide range of dedicated partners, from global fuel distributors and fuel technology companies to government agencies and environmental groups. Today in Germany, there are five liquid hydrogen refueling stations - and soon there will be two in the US. Developed with Linde AG, they are virtually as easy to use as normal gasoline pumps.
Wonderful post and discussion. I would like all who are interested in "The Hydrogen Fuel Myth" to please go to the following website which is run by Dr. Robert Zubrin...former NASA Scientist and also a great physicist...www.TheNewAtlantis.com, and look for the topic above which I put in quotes. If you think Hydrogen is the future, I suggest you read the PDF article and then think again. It is pretty straight science and easy to understand. I always thought of Hydrogen as a way to the future also, but after doing my research and homework, I have to agree with Dr. Zubrin that it is a pipe dream. Methanol would be much better. Download and read the PDF. If you can't find it, contact me at my email: greerlouis@yahoo.com and I will send it to you. Keep up the good posts folks and always keep an open mind towards the future.
Louis Greer...T&L Thai Products
Quoting from [saraenterprise]:
Our long-term EfficientDynamics strategy can be summed up with one vehicle: the BMW Hydrogen 7. As the world's first luxury performance sedan with hydrogen drive, it runs on the most plentiful element in the world and emits virtually nothing but water vapor. And because the infrastructure for refueling a hydrogen internal combustion engine is not yet complete, the V-12 engine also runs on gasoline at the push of a button, though emissions will result. But all it takes is the power of the Hydrogen 7's 12-cylinder, 260 horsepower engine to prove the capability of our EfficientDynamics. The BMW Hydrogen 7 is not available for purchase at this time, but is considered to be a milestone in bringing forward hydrogen as the sustainable fuel for individual transportation.
On a global level, hydrogen technology addresses the growing gaps in the supply of fossil fuels. More specifically, it is the only fuel that can allow for a reduction in the overall emission cycle, while meeting our energy needs in a sustainable way. Besides, not many fuels can be produced from renewable sources such as sun, wind, water and biom *.
Determined to bring the power of hydrogen to the world, our initiative goes far beyond the vehicle itself. We are already collaborating with a wide range of dedicated partners, from global fuel distributors and fuel technology companies to government agencies and environmental groups. Today in Germany, there are five liquid hydrogen refueling stations - and soon there will be two in the US. Developed with Linde AG, they are virtually as easy to use as normal gasoline pumps.
Wonderful post and discussion. I would like all who are interested in "The Hydrogen Fuel Myth" to please go to the following website which is run by Dr. Robert Zubrin...former NASA Scientist and also a great physicist...www.TheNewAtlantis.com, and look for the topic above which I put in quotes. If you think Hydrogen is the future, I suggest you read the PDF article and then think again. It is pretty straight science and easy to understand. I always thought of Hydrogen as a way to the future also, but after doing my research and homework, I have to agree with Dr. Zubrin that it is a pipe dream. Methanol would be much better. Download and read the PDF. If you can't find it, contact me at my email: greerlouis@yahoo.com and I will send it to you. Keep up the good posts folks and always keep an open mind towards the future.
Louis Greer...T&L Thai Products
Quoting from [greerlouis]:Wonderful post and discussion. I would like all who are interested in "The Hydrogen Fuel Myth" to please go to the following website which is run by Dr. Robert Zubrin...former NASA Scientist and also a great physicist...www.TheNewAtlantis.com, and look for the topic above which I put in quotes. If you think Hydrogen is the future, I suggest you read the PDF article and then think again. It is pretty straight science and easy to understand. I always thought of Hydrogen as a way to the future also, but after doing my research and homework, I have to agree with Dr. Zubrin that it is a pipe dream. Methanol would be much better. Download and read the PDF. If you can't find it, contact me at my email: greerlouis@yahoo.com and I will send it to you. Keep up the good posts folks and always keep an open mind towards the future.Louis Greer...T&L Thai Products
Admittedly I didn't take my time to read the article, but when I hear "methanol", the word "poison" comes to my mind. Of course we are not going to drink but burn it! Still so, we have to think in the possibility of car crashes, leaks, etc. So that's why I'm not so enthusiastic about methanol.
Though I agree with the general concept. Today it has become much easier to develop your own "designer fuel" from many forms of waste. There are many hydrocarbons around us, like chaff, bagasse, straw, wood, etc., and it is not unthinkable to convert them into liquid hydrocarbons that resemble gas (gasoline).
Methanol is a very easy to obtain option, but I feel like we shouldn't stop there. Let's think in something with a higher energy content per volume, innocuous, and preferably with a very high flashpoint, to keep it from burning under ambiental conditions.
From my point of view, this would be the logical further development from methanol, a substance that does indeed have its merits as an engine fuel, but is too dangerous to be used in real life by "amateurs" (the average "un-technical" car owner).
Quoting from [germex]:Quoting from [greerlouis]:Wonderful post and discussion. I would like all who are interested in "The Hydrogen Fuel Myth" to please go to the following website which is run by Dr. Robert Zubrin...former NASA Scientist and also a great physicist...www.TheNewAtlantis.com, and look for the topic above which I put in quotes. If you think Hydrogen is the future, I suggest you read the PDF article and then think again. It is pretty straight science and easy to understand. I always thought of Hydrogen as a way to the future also, but after doing my research and homework, I have to agree with Dr. Zubrin that it is a pipe dream. Methanol would be much better. Download and read the PDF. If you can't find it, contact me at my email: greerlouis@yahoo.com and I will send it to you. Keep up the good posts folks and always keep an open mind towards the future.Louis Greer...T&L Thai Products
Admittedly I didn't take my time to read the article, but when I hear "methanol", the word "poison" comes to my mind. Of course we are not going to drink but burn it! Still so, we have to think in the possibility of car crashes, leaks, etc. So that's why I'm not so enthusiastic about methanol.
Though I agree with the general concept. Today it has become much easier to develop your own "designer fuel" from many forms of waste. There are many hydrocarbons around us, like chaff, bagasse, straw, wood, etc., and it is not unthinkable to convert them into liquid hydrocarbons that resemble gas (gasoline).
Methanol is a very easy to obtain option, but I feel like we shouldn't stop there. Let's think in something with a higher energy content per volume, innocuous, and preferably with a very high flashpoint, to keep it from burning under ambiental conditions.
From my point of view, this would be the logical further development from methanol, a substance that does indeed have its merits as an engine fuel, but is too dangerous to be used in real life by "amateurs" (the average "un-technical" car owner).
Yes, you are correct in that the average car owner is lucky to be able to pump their own gas...so methanol would be a little too dangerous for them to fool around with. Sorry I did not think of that myself. And I totally agree with you that we must develope better fuels with low hazards for use by the average person. If we could convince our governments to spend the money spent on developing new weapons to kill off the human race on viable fuel alternatives, we would probably see major advances in just a few short years.
Quoting from [greerlouis]:
If we could convince our governments to spend the money spent on developing new weapons to kill off the human race on viable fuel alternatives, we would probably see major advances in just a few short years.
![[em2]](http://img.alibaba.com/images/eng/style/icon/emoticons_laugh.gif){kind=icon}
That's exactly my point! Though relax, help is on the way! There are quite a few individuals who are working on that. Obviously they are very tight-lipped at this moment, but soon you'll see results.