Replying to [sogans]:
Sorry my friend, your post is so full of mistakes and misconceptions that it would take me hours to refute. Therefore please allow me to limit myself to just one example.
You say that electric motors are expensive. Well, compared to what? A sandwich? In this case you are right! But you are comparing it to the electrolysis equipment plus the combustion engine you would need. Now tell me what you think costs more!
Quoting from [saraenterprise]:
Our long-term EfficientDynamics strategy can be summed up with one vehicle: the BMW Hydrogen 7. As the world's first luxury performance sedan with hydrogen drive, it runs on the most plentiful element in the world and emits virtually nothing but water vapor. And because the infrastructure for refueling a hydrogen internal combustion engine is not yet complete, the V-12 engine also runs on gasoline at the push of a button, though emissions will result. But all it takes is the power of the Hydrogen 7's 12-cylinder, 260 horsepower engine to prove the capability of our EfficientDynamics. The BMW Hydrogen 7 is not available for purchase at this time, but is considered to be a milestone in bringing forward hydrogen as the sustainable fuel for individual transportation.
On a global level, hydrogen technology addresses the growing gaps in the supply of fossil fuels. More specifically, it is the only fuel that can allow for a reduction in the overall emission cycle, while meeting our energy needs in a sustainable way. Besides, not many fuels can be produced from renewable sources such as sun, wind, water and biom *.
Determined to bring the power of hydrogen to the world, our initiative goes far beyond the vehicle itself. We are already collaborating with a wide range of dedicated partners, from global fuel distributors and fuel technology companies to government agencies and environmental groups. Today in Germany, there are five liquid hydrogen refueling stations - and soon there will be two in the US. Developed with Linde AG, they are virtually as easy to use as normal gasoline pumps.
Very nice. If they can resolve the safety and efficient factors. It would definite be the best choice as hydrogen is the most abundance substance in the universe.
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Quoting from [Remus]:
Very nice. If they can resolve the safety and efficient factors. It would definite be the best choice as hydrogen is the most abundance substance in the universe.
If we can overcome the storage and transportation problems inherant in the use of hydrogen as a combustible, we should also consider using the oxygen obtained in the dissociation of water.
The reason is that if we use ambient air as the oxygen source to burn something at high temperatures and high pressure (like in an engine), we inevitably also create nitrogen oxides (NOx). Having both hydrogen and oxygen on-board would solve this problem.
You say that my post is so "full of mistakes and misconceptions..." but thanks to those "mistakes" as you call them I'm getting savings of 25% to 30% in my own fuel bills. Being in the transportation business and owning two large diesel trucks I "refuse" to surrender my hard earned cash to the oil "interests".
As for electric motors I consider them a clean energy alternative. But it seems you misunderstood my point. I referred to the Tesla roadster capable of 0 to 60 mph in 3.9 seconds http://www.teslamotors.com/ and http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7991783700282017627&q=you+tube+electric+cars&ei=lgtcSMKCAYGqrQLh9bimCQ&hl=es as an example of performance. However if one were really interested in "budget" vehicles there are companies in Asia specializing in small “budget” electric vehicles. You may check Katmandu and Nepal where use of electrical vehicals are widespread.
http://www.tiempocyberclimate.org/newswatch-update/feature060527.htm
So really I don't know what you were referring to as "cheap as a sandwich"?? There are economically priced electrical vehicles as well as costly ones. So it is a matter of choice. However both require a servicing platform which is not available in many places yet. But as in the case of Katmandu, Nepal, when there's a will there's a way. Personally I don't care whether we use electric cars or hydrogen cars in the future as long we stop polluting our planet.
As for the BMW hydrogen vehicle which this post is dedicated to I see nothing wrong with it as long as the hydrogen is obtained from a clean source and wish it can be available to as many environmentally conscious persons as possible.
You may wish to view the following videos
:
Who killed the electric car?
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=you+tube+electric+cars&hl=es&sitesearch=#
Stanley Meyers whose research on water fuel cell vehicles may have cost him his life and several of his patents in use by NASA today:
Run Your Car On Water Today: STAN MEYER KILLED Pt 2
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=you+tube+electric+cars&hl=es&sitesearch=#q=stan%20meyers&hl=es&sitesearch=&start=40
Water Torch
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=you+tube+electric+cars&hl=es&sitesearch=#q=water%20torch&hl=es&sitesearch=
With this I expect I can end this post on a friendly note. The last thing I wish is to clash with anyone on this forum.
I'll close with the following thought:
All truth p through three stages:
First, it is ridiculed;
Second, it is violently opposed; and
Third, it is accepted as self-evident.
Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)
Quoting from [sogans]Maybe you said a few true facts, but then it was out of context. For example, now you talk about your truck that saves you 20-30% on fuel. How is that related to the original post? So if you think there is something to improve upon the concept presented there, go ahead! Nobody will be against it, but you have to make a clear connection to make it possible for us to understand you. What you SAID didn't make sense, but what you THOUGHT perhaps did. Please try again!
There we go again you continue to step on my toes, ouch!
I'm surprised whats clear to all appears not clear to you.
I wonder how you get to know my thoughts? Do we have a mind reader?
I certainly would appreciate if we not get the egos in the ideas way.
In my last post I mentioned that I saw nothing wrong with the BMW hydrogen vehicle as long as the hydrogen is obtained from a "clean source" and wish it can be available to as many environmentally conscious persons as possible.
Now I must point out that we have clean sources (H20) available everywhere and polluting sources (OIL and Natural Gas). Natural Gas is only "natural" in that its tapped from the earth. It is quite evident that that big oil also wants to get into the action. They have no where else to go. So they are also processing hydrogen from their "hydrocarbons" in fossil fuels. While a driver is merrily cruising by believing they are helping the planet.
All the pollution is left behind in the refinery sad to say. Now to understand the BMW Hydrogen 7 its useful we check into its characteristics, at least thats what I did. I profess to be no expert. So I checked:
http://alternativefuels.about.com/od/hydrogenvehicles/a/2007bmwh7.htm
Here it said that it was a "bi-fuel" vehicle. It could use either fuel when required. Also heard that Honda has already launched its FCX Clarity model for California use:
Its actually an electrically run hydrogen powered fuel cell. The fuel cell provides the electric power to the vehicle.
The mechanics of the fuel cell are described here:
http://automobiles.honda.com/fcx-clarity/how-fcx-works.aspx
The Honda is not a true hydrogen powered vehicle in the true sense of the word just a "specialized" electrical vehicle. Pretty clean vehicle though!
Well friends, I've got a few more clippings on the electric cars: Canada puts brakes on electric vehicles - Yahoo! News
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080621/sc_afp/canadausautoenvironment_080621090953
Also check out this link:
http://finance.yahoo.com/loans/article/105265/5-Electric-Cars-You-Can-Buy-Now
I didn't say it, she did!
Hydrogen Booster Testomony 40% more MPG
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y43RjwTw150
Sir, I couldn't help noticing the excellent post on "free energy" generator from Australia which certainly breaks many paradigms.
I just wished to add that such a generator I heard was already available in the US and Canada so far. They call it the Humingbird motor. Their website is http://befreetech.com/feinfo.htm
They have a plan in which they make a contract with the user which will lodge the generator in their premises and recieve free electricity for life. The energy surplus is re-introduced to the power grid. Of course the proceeds will go to the "franchise" suppliers.
Please listen to this interview to get to know more of the plan.
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/kywaterfuelmuseum/2008/03/23/Kurt-Annaheim
It would be interesting to get the same machine to market this "free" energy elsewhere.
Quoting from [germex]:If I understood that right, hydrogen is already well accepted as a magnificent fuel. The only problems it still faces is regarding safe storage in light tanks inside the car. - What is your opinion on that?
Can we run our car with water and gas?
Can anybody tell me is the HHO Gas is real working or is another scam?
It is possible to run a car on water (or more precisely, on the gas produced from it), but so far I haven't seen a case where it was reasonable. The energy needed to split the water molecules into gas is more than what you get back when you burn it. So you better use that energy directly to propell the car.
In the case of those HHO devices some companies offer the situation is different. First of all, the tricky point is finding a device that produces elemental H and O, not H2 and O2. If you find one of these, it will work just fine.
But how does it work? It doesn't really substitute your gas or diesel, but enhance its combustion. Ok, part of the energy produced in the engine comes from the burning of these gases, but the most important part is that they help completely burning the hydrocarbons (diesel or gas) and therefore increase the efficiency of the engine.
As you can imagine, you only obtain good results when your motor isn't working very well (not well tuned). That in turn means, you might be better off if you just have the engine tuned, but you'll have to decide on a case by case basis. Sometimes engines are not well designed, and then the use of HHO is indeed the best thing to do.
Presently, the use of hydrogen and oxygen as a car fuel only makes sense if you store them as such in your car and if they are produced with the help of a "renewable" energy source, like the sun (via photovoltaic panels). Otherwise you just tranfer the problem "out of sight", and many people are indeed mislead by that, believing that something has been solved or is better now.
Quoting from [andrewsjohn5]:Quoting from [germex]:If I understood that right, hydrogen is already well accepted as a magnificent fuel. The only problems it still faces is regarding safe storage in light tanks inside the car. - What is your opinion on that?
Can we run our car with water and gas?
Can anybody tell me is the HHO Gas is real working or is another scam?
hi there, I use water to fuel a car as a supplement to gasoline. In fact, very little water is needed,only one quart of water provides over 1800 gallons of HHO gas which can literally last for months and significantly increase your car fuel efficiently, improve emissions quality, and save money. I found the way through this site http://www.runcarsonwater.us i really recommend it to everybody, it's a nice ebook where you can find the instructions on how to do it! take a look.
That is evidently one of the systems that improve the combustion of your gas or diesel. It is not a hydrogen powered system per se. - Good it works for you!