Replying to [lawyersun]:  

Really, I do know who that organization is and what they do.  The whole point was that a foreign buyer was taking this company to arbitration thru that organization.  Just like I know what ICC arbitration is.  If a person is willing to pay the fee's for arrbitration because of  breach of contract that is a good place to start as very few cases have actually been won by foreign companies within the framework of the Chinese courts.  We both know that no goverment has the resources to pursue those companies or individuals that do low cost scams.  Besides if you were reporting to a local police department, what is the likelyhood that they speak a foreign language?  Almost none.  You can post one offs where someone was so enraged that they actually flew to China to file a formal complaint but most SME's do not have the budget to do so once scammed, and I do know the average hourly billing wage for a reputable Chinese lawyer.  

The biggest problem is that most buyers don't even consider purchase contracts based on Chinese law.  So then they have no real recourse against any company, person or entity who does not deliver per promise.  I'am sure that with enough complaints if they can be translated by the local police that there may be some sort of investigation into the company based on how much they are recieving without paying Chinese business taxes.  T/T payments are traceable but W/U payments are not.

Ranger


 

Replying to [lawyersun]:  

Really, I do know who that organization is and what they do.  The whole point was that a foreign buyer was taking this company to arbitration thru that organization.  Just like I know what ICC arbitration is.  If a person is willing to pay the fee's for arrbitration because of  breach of contract that is a good place to start as very few cases have actually been won by foreign companies within the framework of the Chinese courts.  We both know that no goverment has the resources to pursue those companies or individuals that do low cost scams.  Besides if you were reporting to a local police department, what is the likelyhood that they speak a foreign language?  Almost none.  You can post one offs where someone was so enraged that they actually flew to China to file a formal complaint but most SME's do not have the budget to do so once scammed, and I do know the average hourly billing wage for a reputable Chinese lawyer.  

The biggest problem is that most buyers don't even consider purchase contracts based on Chinese law.  So then they have no real recourse against any company, person or entity who does not deliver per promise.  I'am sure that with enough complaints if they can be translated by the local police that there may be some sort of investigation into the company based on how much they are recieving without paying Chinese business taxes.  T/T payments are traceable but W/U payments are not.

Ranger

Hi, Ranger,

Just now a guy from Canada called me, so I come back to these scammers again here. The Canada guy was scammed USD2,700, that is CNY18,900. According to Chinese laws, when a person scam CNY2,000 to CNY5,000 from other persons, his action will be a Crime over China Criminal Law. There is a scope for lowest sum, because in provinices of PRC, income of local citizens vary greatly from province to province. But obviously, these putian scammers' achieved sum from each victim is more than this sum of several thousand. So the right authority is Putian local police.

What I was suggesting that Canada guy, was asking him to find one person in Canada who can speak Chinese/Mandarin, and make a phone call to Putian Police. I think this is not extremely difficult in Canada to my knowing many Chinese emigration there nowadays, so what about hire one translator to make the phone call for them?

Regarding your "very few cases have actually been won by foreign companies within the framework of the Chinese courts", well, I can not agree with you at all. I do not think Chinese laws have any discrimination over foreign companies, well, just like the CNN's Mr. BIG MOUTH Cafferty discriminates Chinese. And your words is obviously not precise enough, as I do not think you had ever studied all or many Litigation Cases between Chinese companies and foreign companies. And you had said China has "reputable" lawyers, so if China does not have "reputable" laws or "reputable" courts, how can "reputable" lawyers exist in China? If China has "reputable" courts and laws, then everybody is equal before laws and on courts, not matter he is a Chinese company or a foreign company. What a foreign company needs, is to obey the game rules and to play his game very well on Chinese court, then I will wonder why he can not win his claims in Chinese court please?

Whatsoe'er, I myself must admit, that we may trust CIETAC more, than Chinese Courts.

And I would like to express my personal little thank to your concerns to this type of topic.

Regards,

Sun Jin (Marlow)

Plus, CIETAC's lowest charge and expense of dealing with an International arbitration case that is an arbitration between a Chinese company and a foreign company, is CNY20,000(USD2,857).