Ok, why as a trustPass member do my products show up BELOW that of 18 different FREE Members?
What EXACTLY is the heirachial structure used so I can figure out why my products are listed below these free member's product?
What is the point of people apying for TrustPass if they do not get the higher ranking?
From your own information stating what services/ advantages you get as a TrustPass member:
- Be easily found by buyers.
- Stand out from your thousands of competitors.
- Gain more business opportunities.
- Quality customers find your company and products first!
- TrustPass members are always listed before free members in search results.
- New customers come to you before your competitors.
So tell me WHY you do not think you are in breach of contract by NOT giving the benefits you are charging for!
Replying To [Foow]:I want to know this answer too Foow.
I have been a Trust pass member for THREE YEARS, and yet, when I do a search for Biodegradable Plastic Bags, or Biodegradable bags, my listing does not even appear, although I update the listing regularly.
Alibaba scamming its Western paying members should hardly be a surprise.
You see, Alibaba's present day culture of actively recruiting more and more Putian Gold member criminals to scam Western buyers exactly reflects the mind of its Chinese management team.
Hhmmmmmmm ... I guess that's just a cute way of saying that top Alibaba managers are just a gang of criminals.
Top Alibaba managers are Criminals? One might say that's a bit harsh!
No way! Some 99% of the hundreds of Putian Gold members flogging fake electronic stuff are scammers. Alibaba knows it. The Alibaba staff who Mod this forum also well know it.
In criminal law, both in the West and in China, the party and its staff who knowingly publish advertisments they know to be fraudulent, are every bit as guilty as the criminal scammer himself.
So, it's hardly a surprise that Alibaba could not give two hoots about ripping off its Western paying members too. ![[em4]](http://img.alibaba.com/images/eng/style/icon/emoticons_sad.gif){kind=icon}
Quoting from [Foow]:Ok, why as a trustPass member do my products show up BELOW that of 18 different FREE Members?
What EXACTLY is the heirachial structure used so I can figure out why my products are listed below these free member's product?
What is the point of people apying for TrustPass if they do not get the higher ranking?
From your own information stating what services/ advantages you get as a TrustPass member:
Why is it so important?
- Be easily found by buyers.
- Stand out from your thousands of competitors.
- Gain more business opportunities.
How does it benefit you?
- Quality customers find your company and products first!
- TrustPass members are always listed before free members in search results.
- New customers come to you before your competitors.
So tell me WHY you do not think you are in breach of contract by NOT giving the benefits you are charging for!
Dear Sir,
I notice that you posted 4 products. There are three ones posted in year 2007 without update. I have tried to search your recently posted product "Neoprene Wine Cooler Bag". It is just listed below Gold Suppliers and above all free members. You may have a check at: http://www.alibaba.com/trade/search?Type=&ssk=y&year=&month=&industry=&location=&keyword=&SearchText=Neoprene+Wine+Cooler+Bag+&Country=&srchLocation=&srchYearMonth=&IndexArea=product_en&CatId=0
In this case, we highly advised you to update your products regularly. You will find shifts of your product listings after you do that. Have a try!
Alibaba.com
Quoting from [grigo]:Replying To [Foow]:I want to know this answer too Foow.
I have been a Trust pass member for THREE YEARS, and yet, when I do a search for Biodegradable Plastic Bags, or Biodegradable bags, my listing does not even appear, although I update the listing regularly.
Hi Sir,
I really believe that you updated your products regularly. I searched your product "Non-Woven Spp Shopping Bag". It is listed at first. Woo.... Everybody will envy you. You may check at: http://www.alibaba.com/trade/search?Type=&ssk=y&year=&month=&location=&keyword=&SearchText=Non-Woven+Spp+Shopping+Bag+&Country=&srchYearMonth=&IndexArea=product_en&CatId=0
So, how about other products, like "Paper Coffee Cups" etc? Why don't you update them as well? We are looking forward your efforts towards these products.
Alibaba.com
Dear Sir,I notice that you posted 4 products. There are three ones posted in year 2007 without update. I have tried to search your recently posted product "Neoprene Wine Cooler Bag". It is just listed below Gold Suppliers and above all free members. You may have a check at: http://www.alibaba.com/trade/search?Type=&ssk=y&year=&month=&industry=&location=&keyword=&SearchText=Neoprene+Wine+Cooler+Bag+&Country=&srchLocation=&srchYearMonth=&IndexArea=product_en&CatId=0
In this case, we highly advised you to update your products regularly. You will find shifts of your product listings after you do that. Have a try!
Alibaba.com
So the listing heirachy has nothing to do with the fact that I am a TrustPass Member..... but the is based on the TIME the product was posted? That was the point of the SELLING LEADS..... NOT the PRODUCT catagory.
I again bring to your note FROM YOUR OWN DEFINITIONS:
TrustPass members are always listed before free members in search results.
So obviously this is NOT what you are now saying. You are saying my rank is based on a TIME FACTOR, NOT the fact that I have a TrustPass Membership. This would constitute the legal definition of Breach Of Contract. I will be interested to discover during my coming research just how many other US based TrustPass members will be interested in beginning a class action lawsuit against Alibaba for this breach and blatant false advertising.... I would like to thank you for your reply as it is a definitive piece of evidence on Alibaba's part that being a trustpass member does NOT get you listed above free members based on paid membership, but is in fact, based on a TIME factor.
Also, please note, why should I have to "update" my products? They have not changed in any way... The product section is supposed to be based on the KEYWORDS, not any kind of TIME FRAME
Here is a "base search" that anyone in the US looking for a seller in the US would use.
According to Alibaba's promotional material this search should place MY products above any Free member, whcih of course, it does NOT!
This is NOT what your company promises potential TrustPass Members for a paid subsription. You Promise us listing ABOVE free members and WE ARE NOT GETTING IT!!!
So get your story straight and either give TrustPass Members what they pay for or refund the money you are taking under false pretenses!
Quoting from [Foow]:Also, please note, why should I have to "update" my products? They have not changed in any way... The product section is supposed to be based on the KEYWORDS, not any kind of TIME FRAME
Here is a "base search" that anyone in the US looking for a seller in the US would use.
According to Alibaba's promotional material this search should place MY products above any Free member, whcih of course, it does NOT!
This is NOT what your company promises potential TrustPass Members for a paid subsription. You Promise us listing ABOVE free members and WE ARE NOT GETTING IT!!!
So get your story straight and either give TrustPass Members what they pay for or refund the money you are taking under false pretenses!
Dear Sir,
Actually, products are ranked with updated time as well. This is to benefit our buyers. As you know, buyers are more willing to look for the current products rather than dated products, right? This is also the reason why I previously tell you to update your products every two weeks. I think that regular update is not only good for the listing but also can attract buyers with this new information.
Also, we are not tricking members for the priority listings. Normally, TrustPass members’ products can share priority listings about 5 days even they don’t update their products within these 5 days. However, as above saying goes, we should take both buyers’ interests and suppliers’ benefits into consideration to rationally arrange the listings. Hope that you can understand us in this matter!
All and all, you join in Alibaba.com as a TrustPass member which is to get more business opportunities, right? We should work hard together to get this achievement. Your efforts for well manage your account will be appreciated. Personally, I really hope that you don’t give up TrustPass membership in such a short time.
Alibaba.com
I allege this matter is a Criminal Fraud on the part of Alibaba ...
Foow, on a closer look at this matter and considering what "Trust Pass Service Team" just said, it is my opinion that Alibaba's action is criminal fraud ... pure and simple.
If this interesting matter develops, I'll post the checklist of elements which international white collar crime experts use to determine if fraud exists. All those elements certainly exist in this case.
Alibaba is registered in Hong Kong where police treat fraud complaints seriously in order to preserve Hong Kong as a premier international banking and trade centre.
If I were a TrustPass member I would make written complaint to the Hong Kong police.
Following is a rough draft Outline of my case (which a non-legal person would put in his own words while preserving the critical legal logic):
1. Alibaba is a Hong Kong domicile company (Attachment 'A' is company search).
2. Shown in Attachment 'B', Alibaba represented to me in material published on its website that "TrustPass members are always listed before free members in search results" with consequent benefit to me that "Quality customers find your company and products first" and my products would "Be easily found by buyers" and would "Stand out from your thousands of competitors" and "New customers come to you before your competitors" resulting in "Gain more business opportunities" (the 'Representation').
3. But for priority listing ahead of free members, it is impossible that the benefits promised in the Representation can materialise, as was known to Alibaba when it made the Representation (Attachment 'D' is print out of list of free members selling product in competition against mine).
4. Induced by, and acting in reliance upon, the Representation, I paid Alibaba its requested fee on xx date. (Attachment 'E' is evidence of payment).
5. But for the Representation, I would not have paid the fee to be a TrustPass member.
6. At all material times, Alibaba's computer software did not (and still does not) place TrustPass members ahead of free members (Attachment 'F' is admittance by Alibaba staff made in its Trust Pass internet forum).
7. Accordingly, Alibaba knew it could not provide the promised benefits, and had no intent to provide the benefits, when it made the Representation.
[cond below]
8. I have not received any of the promised benefit because my company and its products are not listed ahead of free members (Attachment 'G' is print out).
9. Alibaba has refused my request to rectify the matter and its published reply to Foow in its Trust Pass forum is an attempt to camouflage or conceal the fraud 'H').
10. Attachment 'I' is full chronology of events and related material.
11. In all the circumstances, Alibaba deliberately made a false representation to me to obtain a financial gain by deceit.
12. I hereby make formal complaint against Alibaba for fraud and I respectfully request investigation of the matter with view to charges and recovery of the money I have lost by Alibaba's deception.
13. In respect of police resources, I submit that this matter is in the public interest in that I estimate Alibaba is defrauding Western TrustPass members of some $10 million per year in exactly the same circumstance as mine (Attachment 'J' is correspondence from other TrustPass members who express intent to also make complaint to you).
14. Given the scale of the alleged fraud, I would appreciate your view as to whether you have any objection to me copying this complaint to investigative journalists with Hong Kong and other international media in order to lessen the damage being done to both m of unsuspecting small Western business firms like mine and to Hong Kong's good reputation as a premier international banking and trade centre.
I have the impression you lit a fuse. Now, where should we go to take shelter? Or should we hope and pray (there are these words again) that somebody will be smart enough to put the fuse out?
This whole deal bothers me - a lot! It's not only because Alibaba makes false claims, it's also because we definitely do need a portal like theirs, with the wide reach they offer. So my personal interest is not watching as they go down the drain; I would like to see them correct their mistakes - in all areas!
What do you guys think about this?