The pronunciation of "that" and "that"
Post 1 of 10
A few days ago a discussion began about the difference between uses of "that" and "which".
I intentionally didn't mention that "that", when used to link a relative clause, is always unstressed and its vowel is pronounced to rhyme with "bet", "said", "head".
Whereas "that" used as a demonstrative is usually stressed by the speaker, and the vowel sound is the sound heard in "sat", "has", "am".
I intentionally didn't mention that "that", when used to link a relative clause, is always unstressed and its vowel is pronounced to rhyme with "bet", "said", "head".
- I like the things that you said.
- This is the pen that writes the best.
- The meatball, that rolled off the table, fell in my shoe.
Whereas "that" used as a demonstrative is usually stressed by the speaker, and the vowel sound is the sound heard in "sat", "has", "am".
- That is what you said.
- I like that duck.
28 Jul 2007 05:52
Post 2 of 10
As I Know.the differen between that and which is not so simple .
Do you agree with me ?
Do you agree with me ?
30 Jul 2007 20:56
Post 3 of 10
replying to china1product]:
As I Know.the differen between that and which is not so simple .
Do you agree with me ?
That is correct. This is also being discussed under another thread.
31 Jul 2007 05:29
Post 4 of 10
Replying to [Professor Carl]: I find the word "that" quite clumsly in many sentences. I would write "I like the things you say", "This pen writes the best" "The meatball rolled off the table and fell into my shoe" If in a sentence or phrase it sounds clumsy, rephrase to take the offending word out.
Linncroft
Linncroft
14 Aug 2007 07:33
Post 5 of 10
Quoting from [juniper]:
Replying to [Professor Carl]: I find the word "that" quite clumsly in many sentences. I would write "I like the things you say", "This pen writes the best" "The meatball rolled off the table and fell into my shoe" If in a sentence or phrase it sounds clumsy, rephrase to take the offending word out.
Linncroft
I agree, and so does English grammar. Yet if you say ,"Which meatball?", then "that" clarifies--"the one that ..."
14 Aug 2007 10:13
Post 6 of 10
Professor Carl replying to himself
Perhaps the most important thing is if you are reading, and you see the word "that", it can be pronounced in two ways, depending on the context. If it is pointing something out, the vowel sounds like the one in "sat"; if it has another grammatical purpose, to link phrases (this one can sometimes be left out, like you say), then it is never stressed, and its vowel is like the one in "set". I hope that that is clear
15 Aug 2007 06:46
Post 7 of 10
Replying to [Professor Carl]:
Australians just say 'that'.... like sat... one pronunciation
of course English is a very hard language to learn.... which is why there is so much illiteracy in english speaking countries
all those stupid silent letters... what is pronounced 'wot'...the h has no sound and the a is pronounced as an o.... I could go on...
![[em1]](http://img.alibaba.com/images/eng/style/icon/emoticons_smile.gif)
Australians just say 'that'.... like sat... one pronunciation
of course English is a very hard language to learn.... which is why there is so much illiteracy in english speaking countries
all those stupid silent letters... what is pronounced 'wot'...the h has no sound and the a is pronounced as an o.... I could go on...
15 Aug 2007 14:20
Post 8 of 10
Quoting from [katiekat]:
Replying to [Professor Carl]:
Australians just say 'that'.... like sat... one pronunciation
of course English is a very hard language to learn.... which is why there is so much illiteracy in english speaking countries
all those stupid silent letters... what is pronounced 'wot'...the h has no sound and the a is pronounced as an o.... I could go on...
You make good sense. English is spoken in different major ways in different countries. Each of those countries has a standard. I guess the standard would be the one most often heard by television announcers.
I often point out the fact that there are these difference, and I make a point that I am giving examples from American English. Would YOU say that the major standard English types are UK, American, Australian, and Indian? I'm sorry if I'm leaving anyone out... for example Scottish English has very distinctive features.
![[em11]](http://img.alibaba.com/images/eng/style/icon/emoticons_sweat.gif)
When you say that "that" in both grammatical forms is pronounced the same way, i.e., "wot", that is amusingly disconcerting because I believe you and I would pronounce "wot" differently. Maybe we could get some interest and usage going with posts about the International Phonetic Alphabet IPA). Students of English should google IPA and gain some familiarity with it.
Those silent letters in English are a real problem... I'm on the same page about that with you. Some of them are left over from archaic spellings, when the letters used to be pronounced. In some words, however, the silent letters are TO HELP with the pronunciation. For example, people reading English all their lives habitually know the difference between "slid" and "slide", or "hat" and "hate". The silent letters do somewhat serve a purpose in some cases. The problem is, when the English 1500 years ago borrowed the five Roman vowels, the English had to figure out how to apply the five Roman vowel letters to quite a few more English vowel sounds. In addition to that, the vowels of English shifted (see The Great Vowels Shift) around the 1400s.
Tell us more.
I often point out the fact that there are these difference, and I make a point that I am giving examples from American English. Would YOU say that the major standard English types are UK, American, Australian, and Indian? I'm sorry if I'm leaving anyone out... for example Scottish English has very distinctive features.
When you say that "that" in both grammatical forms is pronounced the same way, i.e., "wot", that is amusingly disconcerting because I believe you and I would pronounce "wot" differently. Maybe we could get some interest and usage going with posts about the International Phonetic Alphabet IPA). Students of English should google IPA and gain some familiarity with it.Those silent letters in English are a real problem... I'm on the same page about that with you. Some of them are left over from archaic spellings, when the letters used to be pronounced. In some words, however, the silent letters are TO HELP with the pronunciation. For example, people reading English all their lives habitually know the difference between "slid" and "slide", or "hat" and "hate". The silent letters do somewhat serve a purpose in some cases. The problem is, when the English 1500 years ago borrowed the five Roman vowels, the English had to figure out how to apply the five Roman vowel letters to quite a few more English vowel sounds. In addition to that, the vowels of English shifted (see The Great Vowels Shift) around the 1400s.
Tell us more.
16 Aug 2007 05:01
Post 9 of 10
Replying to [Professor Carl]:
Definately agree, i can speak some german and most of the words are spoken as spelt, you pronounce the k in knee not like in english.
And scottish.... my husband is scottish... he is a building foreman and always complains the workers do not do as told... i try to tell him they can not understand his speech but he thinks he has australian accent now and will not believe me!
Definately agree, i can speak some german and most of the words are spoken as spelt, you pronounce the k in knee not like in english.
And scottish.... my husband is scottish... he is a building foreman and always complains the workers do not do as told... i try to tell him they can not understand his speech but he thinks he has australian accent now and will not believe me!
16 Aug 2007 05:21
Post 10 of 10
Replying to [Professor Carl]:For me,the pronounciation is the most important,take me for example,my major is International Trade,and now I as a salesman in a factory,80% of our products are sold to oversea markets,so this position not only needs good writting and listening skill but also fluent spoken English,sometimes we need to make long distance calls,if your pronounciation is too bad,the clients would have no idea of your talking,too bad.But I;'m a lucky guy,soon I will got some usefull help from a kind knowledgable person on this forum.Be thankfull of his help,I will keep up working hard at the pronuncitaion so that can be the one I want to be.
17 Aug 2007 00:50
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