How can we fight against the "indonesia medan connection"
Post 1 of 40
Hallo all interested users in this forum.
A long time I have a look to sellers from "Medan" Indonesia, it seems that this is the Capital of Fraudsters in Indonesia.
When you have a closer look to all their offers, in all categories, so you will recognize that they all look nearly the same, in style, rules and benefits.
If you get in touch with one of them and later you will not agree to their payment rules, most WU or T/T to a natural person, then they get angry and send you mails with warnings.
Make this two or three times with different companies, you will see, from others you get no reply to requests. It seems they are better protected than Alibaba and have a BLACKLIST.
Because of this matters, I come to my decision that this not is a problem with particular people who try to fraud others, no this is a well organizised criminal Community, equal to the Triaden in China or **** in Italy.
To prevent this massive attack of daily new fraud offers, from evrywhere I suggest to Alibaba, only accept new Members, if they provide a copy of the first side from the ID Card of the Contact Person in this Company. Alibaba can store them in a hidden link to the Companies Profile and only use for internal comparisons.
You will see the fraudsters with alias names will run out quickly in failing to get enough ID Cards.
If somebody has other suggestions to clear this platform from fraudsters, please send your answer and also direct to Alibaba.
rgds
WILHELM
a buyer![[em3]](http://img.alibaba.com/images/eng/style/icon/emoticons_grin.gif)
, frauder![[em6]](http://img.alibaba.com/images/eng/style/icon/emoticons_rage.gif)
A long time I have a look to sellers from "Medan" Indonesia, it seems that this is the Capital of Fraudsters in Indonesia.
When you have a closer look to all their offers, in all categories, so you will recognize that they all look nearly the same, in style, rules and benefits.
If you get in touch with one of them and later you will not agree to their payment rules, most WU or T/T to a natural person, then they get angry and send you mails with warnings.
Make this two or three times with different companies, you will see, from others you get no reply to requests. It seems they are better protected than Alibaba and have a BLACKLIST.
Because of this matters, I come to my decision that this not is a problem with particular people who try to fraud others, no this is a well organizised criminal Community, equal to the Triaden in China or **** in Italy.
To prevent this massive attack of daily new fraud offers, from evrywhere I suggest to Alibaba, only accept new Members, if they provide a copy of the first side from the ID Card of the Contact Person in this Company. Alibaba can store them in a hidden link to the Companies Profile and only use for internal comparisons.
You will see the fraudsters with alias names will run out quickly in failing to get enough ID Cards.
If somebody has other suggestions to clear this platform from fraudsters, please send your answer and also direct to Alibaba.
rgds
WILHELM
a buyer
, frauder
18 Jun 2006 17:58
![[em17]](http://img.alibaba.com/images/eng/style/icon/emoticons_shake_hands.gif){kind=icon}
Post 3 of 40
I will not be surprised after Medan, the location may change to another city in Indonesia. The crooks tried to use the clean and strict discipline addresses in Singapore, and after a couple of exposures, they stopped.
I will not say that there are no bad people here, but these are very few compared to the rampant teeming numbers over the other side of the border, and the law is very efficient here the way justice is carried out to punish wrong doers.
I will not say that there are no bad people here, but these are very few compared to the rampant teeming numbers over the other side of the border, and the law is very efficient here the way justice is carried out to punish wrong doers.
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18 Jun 2006 18:33
Post 4 of 40
Replying to [wilhelm]:
Hello, Wilhelm. suggest you to use your energy to find the the real seller, because you are real trader/real buyer, right?
Same in every countries, not easy to kill the fraudster. One finished, ten growing or appears with new modus.
I am agree entire members should provide ID card of the Contact Person, but will not solve the problem at all. New modus will created by the scammers. Make good sense to your business, make good contact with someone, know him well, verify each other, clarify each other, face to face if possible then trust each other.
Take longer time but save, same like people do in real daily market.
Good for us to identify the fraudster, so we can avoid them, and no more food to the fraudster, by the time will dead by themself because those activities get no result.
BTW, have you read my others reply to your topics? I am afraid you want to talking only the bad thing of Indonesia? No?
Hello, Wilhelm. suggest you to use your energy to find the the real seller, because you are real trader/real buyer, right?
Same in every countries, not easy to kill the fraudster. One finished, ten growing or appears with new modus.
I am agree entire members should provide ID card of the Contact Person, but will not solve the problem at all. New modus will created by the scammers. Make good sense to your business, make good contact with someone, know him well, verify each other, clarify each other, face to face if possible then trust each other.
Take longer time but save, same like people do in real daily market.
Good for us to identify the fraudster, so we can avoid them, and no more food to the fraudster, by the time will dead by themself because those activities get no result.
BTW, have you read my others reply to your topics? I am afraid you want to talking only the bad thing of Indonesia? No?
18 Jun 2006 19:29
Post 5 of 40
Replying to [erld]:
Hallo erld,
yes I have answered to your tip in the other posting.
But I can not agree with you meaning here, if we not start to make the life harder for fraudsters, e.g.copy of ID Card as I mentioned before, what happens ?
All will go the usual way and if something will be blocked they have time to look for new possibilities. But if we start a protection with some small conditions that new posters have to fulfill, we will protect all people, who want make a profitable and trustful business.
If Alibaba would agree to a condition like this and the programmers would make a little change, Alibaba is able to comparisions in the names of all members and prevent the multiple use of a ID Card in a past case of problems.
You will see 30% new postings from frauders less, as a first step and the rest of excisting will be elimatet on his normal way !
rgds
Wilhelm
Hallo erld,
yes I have answered to your tip in the other posting.
But I can not agree with you meaning here, if we not start to make the life harder for fraudsters, e.g.copy of ID Card as I mentioned before, what happens ?
All will go the usual way and if something will be blocked they have time to look for new possibilities. But if we start a protection with some small conditions that new posters have to fulfill, we will protect all people, who want make a profitable and trustful business.
If Alibaba would agree to a condition like this and the programmers would make a little change, Alibaba is able to comparisions in the names of all members and prevent the multiple use of a ID Card in a past case of problems.
You will see 30% new postings from frauders less, as a first step and the rest of excisting will be elimatet on his normal way !
rgds
Wilhelm
18 Jun 2006 19:59
Post 6 of 40
Replying to [erld]:
You make good points![[em1]](http://img.alibaba.com/images/eng/style/icon/emoticons_smile.gif)
The best way to fight scammers is to educate people. It would be mostly impossible to find a fool-proof method to keep them all out, with the international and open design of Alibaba.
The scammers can very easily get new fake IDs for example, they know people who make them, I have many of them by now that scammers have sent in order to convince me they are for real. Alibaba would have to start checking that those IDs are valid, which could cost a lot of resources with members from so many different countries. I'm afraid it's not just a matter of programming.
You make good points
The best way to fight scammers is to educate people. It would be mostly impossible to find a fool-proof method to keep them all out, with the international and open design of Alibaba.
The scammers can very easily get new fake IDs for example, they know people who make them, I have many of them by now that scammers have sent in order to convince me they are for real. Alibaba would have to start checking that those IDs are valid, which could cost a lot of resources with members from so many different countries. I'm afraid it's not just a matter of programming.
18 Jun 2006 20:15
Post 7 of 40
Replying to [FraudWatchersDotOrg]:
Hi, I must contradict you, to educate people is "ONE" way to fight scammers but not the "best" !!!
Of course they can easily get new ID Cards, but it costs money and time and work and thats all what scammers/frauders will not invest.
So the best way is and remains prevention what will not exclude education.
But meanwhile we do this discussion, for "yes" and "no" and all scammers/frauders who will read it, sit behind their computers and laugh, because everybody talk talk talk and nothing happened !!!!!!!!
I have learned in my over 50 years until now and I learn ever more !
IF YOU NOT MOVE; YOU NEVER GET A STEP FORWARD !!!!
rgds
Wilhelm
Hi, I must contradict you, to educate people is "ONE" way to fight scammers but not the "best" !!!
Of course they can easily get new ID Cards, but it costs money and time and work and thats all what scammers/frauders will not invest.
So the best way is and remains prevention what will not exclude education.
But meanwhile we do this discussion, for "yes" and "no" and all scammers/frauders who will read it, sit behind their computers and laugh, because everybody talk talk talk and nothing happened !!!!!!!!
I have learned in my over 50 years until now and I learn ever more !
IF YOU NOT MOVE; YOU NEVER GET A STEP FORWARD !!!!
rgds
Wilhelm
18 Jun 2006 21:00
Post 8 of 40
Replying to [wilhelm]:
Problem is, ID cards can be very easily faked with a program like Photoshop, it really is not much work for them, just a matter of minutes. Not to mention that there are hundreds of thousands of fake (and stolen) IDs already available. Compared to the work it would cause both for people who want to sign up and for Alibaba I just don't think it's worth it. Sorry.
There are easier ways to make scammers work a bit harder. It would be good if Alibaba could filter out phone numbers and websites that are known to have been used by fraudsters, and maybe even names. I know I saw at least one fraud website that was used by 10 different fake companies (all removed now). I suggested this to Alibaba already, I can only hope something will happen.
Problem is, ID cards can be very easily faked with a program like Photoshop, it really is not much work for them, just a matter of minutes. Not to mention that there are hundreds of thousands of fake (and stolen) IDs already available. Compared to the work it would cause both for people who want to sign up and for Alibaba I just don't think it's worth it. Sorry.
There are easier ways to make scammers work a bit harder. It would be good if Alibaba could filter out phone numbers and websites that are known to have been used by fraudsters, and maybe even names. I know I saw at least one fraud website that was used by 10 different fake companies (all removed now). I suggested this to Alibaba already, I can only hope something will happen.
18 Jun 2006 21:17
Post 9 of 40
I agree with fraudwatchers. The best way to fight scammers is to educate people. Only when all of our members can spot a fraudster by using all kinds of tips, then fraudster can not be easily survived in this virtual business world. Requesting all members to provide ID card may be not a final solution for ending fraudster, I am afraid we will receive many copies of fake ID card then.
18 Jun 2006 23:14
Post 10 of 40
Replying to [Stone]:
Hallo, all your statement regarding education are o.K., but also as every day new Scammers come, also new people come and how would you educate them, everyday the same ??
Preventing is the BEST !
So all Moderators and Alibaba are asked to do something and not only ta....lk, ta...................lk, ta.............................lk.
IF YOU NOT MOVE; YOU GET NO STEP FORWARD !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
rgds
Wilhelm
Hallo, all your statement regarding education are o.K., but also as every day new Scammers come, also new people come and how would you educate them, everyday the same ??
Preventing is the BEST !
So all Moderators and Alibaba are asked to do something and not only ta....lk, ta...................lk, ta.............................lk.
IF YOU NOT MOVE; YOU GET NO STEP FORWARD !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
rgds
Wilhelm
19 Jun 2006 00:46
Post 11 of 40
Replying to [wilhelm]:
One thing you can do is take all those Medan scam companies you find and report them to Alibaba. They will remove typical fake companies if you provide them with the right evidence. I can help you with this if you like, I have reported many such companies by now. I do more than talk sometimes
Preventing most of them from signing up in the first place would be better, but Alibaba would have to find practical methods to do that first. I think ideas are always welcome though.
One thing you can do is take all those Medan scam companies you find and report them to Alibaba. They will remove typical fake companies if you provide them with the right evidence. I can help you with this if you like, I have reported many such companies by now. I do more than talk sometimes
Preventing most of them from signing up in the first place would be better, but Alibaba would have to find practical methods to do that first. I think ideas are always welcome though.
19 Jun 2006 02:29